This forum needs...

[Silfir]

Just some guy who deletes those stupid spam threads so Thomas doesn't have to do it himself.

Aka moderator.

Alternatively, an expert in shoes who can decipher the misplaced attempts at shoe-related conversation.

[Epythic]

I absolutely agree.

I'd say we should let a few people volunteer, then do a formal vote and send TB an email with the results and recommend him to please please make that person a mod. That way he can pick the right person without having to spend too much time on it (we all know how much spare time he's got these days ;)).

Just so that there is anyone, I hereby volunteer :)
(dont you vote for me! i know nothing about shoes, except that 7lbs can't be that bad)
(honestly; since i'm most definitely not among the most active persons here, i doubt i'd be the best moderator)

Jokes aside. I'd say *if* we get a mod, there should be the clear rule that he can not use his permissions for anything other than dealing with spam. No editing others first posts in league threads or things like that, however handy that may be (for him).

[Silfir]

As in "Hey Thomas hope you had a nice vacation here is who we want to be mod to fix the spambots"?

I'd picture him saying "Huh wtf is going on" in return... Not sure if we should dump the results of a moderator vote in his lap right away, though I guess he will understand the reasons for it. Keep in mind that he's had a lot of opportunity to select a mod if he thinks one is necessary or desirable, and maybe he wants to get rid of the spam himself, in his time - it's not become unbearable yet, after all. So even if he does come to agree that a mod is required, I think he wants to make the decision as to who that should be himself.

Still, if he's going to select a mod from our ranks - I doubt many of us know him personally - a vote could be the best option.

I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to get a mod only for getting rid of spam now that I think about it - if you're going to get a mod at all and give him forum permissions, you might as well let him do the other stuff a mod would be cool for, such as stickied threads, for instance for forum competitions, renaming misnomed thread titles. You don't have to give him the power to ban users, after all, and without that basically all he is is the guy with the "Moderator" line in his username who is the general purpose forum lackey.

For what it's worth, I volunteer.

[grobblewobble]

You don't have to give him the power to ban users
But shouldn't it also be a job for a moderator to ban the advertising bots, rather then only deleting their messages?

[Silfir]

Hum. Tru dat. Guess it all depends on the level of trust Thomas is willing to invest in another person...

[Epythic]

I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to get a mod only for getting rid of spam now that I think about it - if you're going to get a mod at all and give him forum permissions, you might as well let him do the other stuff a mod would be cool for, such as stickied threads, for instance for forum competitions, renaming misnomed thread titles. You don't have to give him the power to ban users, after all, and without that basically all he is is the guy with the "Moderator" line in his username who is the general purpose forum lackey.

Thanks for pointing this out.

It's exactly what I do *not* want.

The absence of moderators is one of the things I like most about this forum. Of course spam is an exception.

[modular]

For what it's worth, I volunteer.
Works for me.

[Travis Prue]

Dear Lord, the shoes, THEY HAUNT ME! http://sivland.com/emotes/weasel.gif

[Silfir]

Thanks for pointing this out.

It's exactly what I do *not* want.

The absence of moderators is one of the things I like most about this forum. Of course spam is an exception.

Please explain. As far as I can tell, moderators are not a problem, bad moderators are the problem. As in, overbearing, self-important dickweeds.

My most holy principle would be never to ban users except spambots, and to never remove any content except spam content or porn - I don't believe in banning obnoxious or trollish real people or deleting offensive posts, or imposing policies on swearing or bullshit like that. I'm a fan of free speech and having people resolve trouble through talking, and I like this forum the way it is. A lot.

I would get rid of spam, sticky the occasional thread if there's demand for it and correct typos in thread titles if asked to. If there's a way to do it, I'll even request to be given the "Forum Lackey" title instead of "Moderator"...

[Epythic]

Please explain. As far as I can tell, moderators are not a problem, bad moderators are the problem. As in, overbearing, self-important dickweeds.

My most holy principle would be never to ban users except spambots, and to never remove any content except spam content or porn - I don't believe in banning obnoxious or trollish real people or deleting offensive posts, or imposing policies on swearing or bullshit like that. I'm a fan of free speech

I would get rid of spam, sticky the occasional thread and correct typos in thread titles. If there's a way to do it, I'll even request to be given the "Forum Lackey" title instead of "Moderator"...

- Spam, go.
- Typos in thread titles... as long as the original name is still recognizable, go. (for typo fixing, but rephrasing or altering to better fit the threads contents is a no-go).
- Why do we need sticky threads? Important threads usually stay up without help, as long as they are relevant. What if you make, say, the Weakest Link 2010 Rules thread sticky and then disappear right after that contest is over? Everone disappears for a while from time to time... this is the adom community after all. Bad bad, no mods to take the thread down. Sticky thread no-go.
- Thread locking: no-go. It's always been beyond me why some mods like to lock threads. After all, someone might have a good reason to necro a thread.
- The single thing that I would dislike most is mods editing other peoples posts, whether or not the person who made that post agrees.

Ok, I've made lots of bad experiences with bad moderators. But I think you'll agree that so far things work pretty smoothly, except for the spam thing and even that is (was) fairly limited.

Forum-lackey or moderator? Meh. I'd prefer no title at all; my experience is that the Moderator title below a nickname can influence a conversation quite a bit... in the This-Guy-Is-A-Mod-And-You-Are-Not-So-Guess-Who-Is-Right way.

[Necropassion]

I must say that it really is quite astonishing how well-mannered the vast majority of posters on this forum are, and everything has been fine until the damnable shoe-monger appeared. Granted, I also think it would be great to have someone sticky threads such as "The 'treasure hunter' talent sucks", "Guidebook work" or "Minor things, but undocumented".
Silfir is an experienced veteran, an active forum member and a trustworthy chap in my eyes, so I say he'd make a fine moderator.

I choose you, SILFIR!
SILFIR used BANHAMMER!
It's super effective!
Wild spambot fainted...

[Silfir]

Thread-locking and editing other people's posts is a no-no in my book too. The editing especially - For me written text has somewhat of a sacred quality, and I hate mucking with other's writing without their consent with the endless burning rage of Cacame Awemedinade (on a wiki, I always remember the mantra "be bold" and I can work under the assumption that I have consent, as after all anyone can edit, so I can too). I would also only correct thread titles if asked to do so - I think it's rude, and with all the people opening threads and mistyping the titles that would be a lot of work to be rude about.

Not sure if I agree to your concerns about stickies - your points on competition threads have merit, but it could be nice, for instance, to sticky those long time threads that try to keep track of things in the first post and that are informative to any new user and constantly need linking to. I'm thinking, for instance, of the "ADOM Links" thread, the "Ways to Die" thread and most importantly the thread concerning jaakkos' server, (and those Necropassion wrote about while I was writing) as I think it's still something new members only realize even exists after a couple days or even weeks of reading threads and posting, which is a shame considering how awesome it is. Those are threads that in my book could stay stickied indefinitely. Thomas could do it himself, of course, though that would require checking the threads for content and getting a bit more involved than he reasonably has time for...

Hmmm... I actually like the idea of being a secret undercover moderator. Like the resident assassin. I lurk in the dark, slit the throats of dreadful criminal shoe fetishists and disappear into the night, leaving no trace of my doing, living in obscurity... Because I am not your hero. I am a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knife! Okay, I'll stop. Seriously, I think Epythic is right. If at all possible, the moderator should receive no special title at all - no one's opinion has merit over another's, and no one should feel like that's the case.

(Except, of course, the opinions of Grey and gut. They are worth less than worthless. But I think everyone knows that here.)

(EDIT: Am I the only one who smells "shoes" becoming a forum in-joke in the next couple weeks or months?)

[Jack the Ripper]

I say we keep it as simple as we can, so just the ability to delete threads, and the mod will only use it if the post is obviously spam. We're doing just fine without sticky threads. Searching the forum for the relevant, yet older thread is very easy for those of us who know what to look for, and there's no huge stream of new people joining the forums and asking loads of questions that've already been answered in the past, or opening up the TH debate, or asking about the server.

I'm okay with any proposal, as long as that person is online often enough to be able to keep things in check around here. Perhaps we could have TB create a MOD account and give the password to several of the long-time users who are often online. A bit like the community e-mail. Heck, you could even let every 'Ancient Member' know it and use it if spam appears. People who've written 300 posts (that's the threshold for Ancient, and 100 for Senior, right?) here are probably not going to go about doing idiotic stuff.

[Grey]

I personally enjoy the recent shoe-related discussion and think it should be encouraged to flourish more. Who knows what insights may come about. Embrace the footwear and you will satisfy your sole.

On a more serious not, I'd be quite happy to volunteer for moderator myself. I don't see any reason why we need just one either. However I also agree with Epythic that other than the spam there is no need for a moderator - things like mending misspelled threads titles is unnecessary luxury. The actual moderator should not be advertised or labeled as such either - no extra forum title or anything like that. It's purely a janitorial role.

[Jack the Ripper]

I'd be quite happy to volunteer for moderator myself. I don't see any reason why we need just one either. However I also agree with Epythic that other than the spam there is no need for a moderator - things like mending misspelled threads titles is unnecessary luxury. The actual moderator should not be advertised or labeled as such either - no extra forum title or anything like that. It's purely a janitorial role.

Agreed. So why ask TB to make one of us a janitor when he can simply give us the mop? :)

[Silfir]

Well, we can also decide a moderator is unnecessary luxury - after all, we can make fun of the shoe threads while we're waiting for Thomas and they're not overwhelming everything yet. We're annoyed, nothing more.

I don't know about you, but I've been annoyed about other things too. Hunting for old threads for the umpteenth time and making a typo in a thread title for instance. Stickying the thread for jaakkos' server for instance would be a great service to any newbie (and believe it or not, I believe newbie friendliness should not be considered "unnecessary luxury"). I know, we've been having our forum experience uphill in the snow both ways for ages and it's been fun, and we do get new people... It's just I really find it inane to have to dig up or bump threads.

I think some sort of mod account with a password to pass around isn't the best idea ever. You could just make the people you're going to give the password to invisible moderators instead for the same benefit and a greater degree of control - I mean, how are you going to assign responsibility if a fuckup happens with that shared mod account? I mean, for this thing to make sense a moderator would have to be able to both delete spam threads and ban the spambots - and this is the same as the power to delete all threads and ban any user. That's a lot of power, and I'd find it hard to imagine Thomas would give it to just anyone. In fact, I already find it somewhat hard to believe he would give it to any one of us. Any kind of high post number and "Ancient Member" title notwithstanding, he doesn't know us. It's quite likely he'll be asking a close friend with some freetime to watch over the forum in his absence in the future instead. And that's a good thing, because if I had written a game like ADOM and were the owner of a forum as awesome as this one you can be sure I'd ask friends of mine first, regardless of how swell the forum guys are, simply because you need to be able to trust that person you give this power as much as humanly possible.

We're not talking about a janitor or a mop here. We're talking about a guy who is judge and executioner rolled into one. That's why I said I'm not sure if a vote makes sense yet. We have to see how Thomas feels about this first.

[Epythic]

I'm thinking, for instance, of the "ADOM Links" thread, the "Ways to Die" thread and most importantly the thread concerning jaakkos' server,
Maybe we should just put that in the wiki? Where everyone can edit as needed?

Way better than the current model where someone "has" the first post and makes changes when others request them -- what if the thread starter disappears?


Hmmm... I actually like the idea of being a secret undercover moderator. Like the resident assassin. I lurk in the dark, slit the throats of dreadful criminal shoe fetishists and disappear into the night, leaving no trace of my doing, living in obscurity... Because I am not your hero. I am a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knife
I know that was a joke, but still this is an important point. The moderator list *should* be published somewhere. (Just hidden enough that it doesnt influence conversations too much)


(Except, of course, the opinions of Grey and gut. They are worth less than worthless. But I think everyone knows that here.)
Btw, I wonder what happens if one of them but not the other becomes a mod? ... ;)


(EDIT: Am I the only one who smells "shoes" becoming a forum in-joke in the next couple weeks or months?)
Shoe knows...


I say we keep it as simple as we can, so just the ability to delete threads, and the mod will only use it if the post is obviously spam. We're doing just fine without sticky threads. Searching the forum for the relevant, yet older thread is very easy for those of us who know what to look for, and there's no huge stream of new people joining the forums and asking loads of questions that've already been answered in the past, or opening up the TH debate, or asking about the server.
Or we just put those useful pieces of information in a more central place (http://ancardia.wikia.com)?


Perhaps we could have TB create a MOD account and give the password to several of the long-time users who are often online. A bit like the community e-mail. Heck, you could even let every 'Ancient Member' know it and use it if spam appears. People who've written 300 posts (that's the threshold for Ancient, and 100 for Senior, right?) here are probably not going to go about doing idiotic stuff.
You must be drunk. What if the password is leaked? Wouldnt be too much of a problem for the gmail account (everyone can register a new one), but for the forums? Ehm... no?
And postcount says nothing. Absolutely nothing. Write that behind your ears. Automatically giving permissions based on post count will just encourage people to make more "lol!!!"-type posts.


On a more serious not, I'd be quite happy to volunteer for moderator myself. I don't see any reason why we need just one either.
True that.


Well, we can also decide a moderator is unnecessary luxury - after all, we can make fun of the shoe threads while we're waiting for Thomas and they're not overwhelming everything yet. We're annoyed, nothing more.
Yes. But I'd say the percentage of people annoyed with the spam is far higher than the percentage of people annoyed with typos in thread titles.


I don't know about you, but I've been annoyed about other things too. Hunting for old threads for the umpteenth time and making a typo in a thread title for instance. Stickying the thread for jaakkos' server for instance would be a great service to any newbie (and believe it or not, I believe newbie friendliness should not be considered "unnecessary luxury"). I know, we've been having our forum experience uphill in the snow both ways for ages and it's been fun, and we do get new people... It's just I really find it inane to have to dig up or bump threads.
You are doing it wrong. I think. Use the wiki, now that there is one (and one that even has some kind of crazy hyper-active editor - Ascyron, you rock).


We're not talking about a janitor or a mop here. We're talking about a guy who is judge and executioner rolled into one. That's why I said I'm not sure if a vote makes sense yet. We have to see how Thomas feels about this first.
Why? If we *can* reach some kind of consensus here, I bet that *will* influence Thomas' decision. Of course it *is* his decision, but as of now I am not so sure if he is aware of the rising number of spam messages... And anyway, who says we can't try?

[Silfir]

With all respect for the wiki, it's an outside source and not affiliated with this forum... And just like jaakkos' server, it's highly possible for a newbie to find this forum and not know about the wiki, equally likely as he is to not know about the server - he would find out about the wiki from people talking about it and from Ascyron's signature instead of - you guessed it - a stickied thread or an entry in the stickied ADOM Links thread. I'm not even sure what you're talking about. How does the wiki relate to new people knowing or not knowing about the server? Besides, it's located on a service that sometimes loads slowly and is ridden with ads (though overall bearable) - wouldn't it be much preferable if people can stay on this nice ad-free forum instead?

There's a lot of cool ADOM stuff people don't know about. Rather than randomly picking it up after weeks of lurking or posting ("Hold on, I can play ADOM over the internet? And other people can watch me play? Why didn't I know this?!") stickying the relevant threads would not only save us old forum nuts the trouble of seeping through the archives to post a link, it would instantly show people these things exist without having to stumble over them at some other point and then coming up with the courage to ask and risk sounding like a n00b - this is what I mean by newbie friendly. Even stickying the ADOM Links thread alone would go a long way.

(Prize question: How many people who are reading this thread knew the ADOM Links thread before it was mentioned here? How many are still wondering, by this post, where it can be found?)

I'll definitely agree that spam is much more annoying than thread titles with typos. But both are annoying and there are no reasons not to fix them if asked to if you've got someone who can do that, right?

I don't want to come off like we're telling Thomas how to run his forum, that's what's making me feel somewhat reserved about holding a vote and dumping a community choice in his lap - it smells a bit of "Appoint this person or your community is sad", even if we don't mean it that way.

I am certainly fine with discussion, though. I feel a good moderator could add a lot to this forum and take quite some burden off Thomas' shoulders - that's what these guys exist for. You seem to work under the assumption that a moderator is bad in and of itself and a necessary evil at best, and it's true that bad moderators are worthless, harmful and can kill a message board - which makes it all the more important to find a good moderator.

[Soirana]

work under the assumption that a moderator is bad in and of itself and a necessary evil at best

Quote for truth. From my past experience on local forums one of problem is detecting good moderator. It has really nothing to do with being good player, having certain number posts, dedication to community etc. More like a blind guess which often goes wrong.

[grobblewobble]

.. in the meantime, this spambot invasion is getting progressively ugly. We have now for the first time had a regular thread bombarded with serial spam ("where to pick herbs" in the general discussion). Bad news, because it will not be the last time.

I've seen a spambot invasion turn from mildly annoying and even somewhat amusing into a plague on another forum where they did have moderators. I hate to think what is going to happen on this forum if no action is taken. At some point, you have regular serial spam in all topics and it gets hard to have a conversation any more.

So uhm yeah, of course it is important to agree on matters like whether it is ok or not for a moderator to sticky a topic or to make some minor correction on request, but with the current impending disaster I'm not overly worried about those issues.

So far we have three volunteers - in my humble opinion, they all qualify. Now how to reach Thomas?

[Soirana]

Fly to emirates and kill him having fun...

[Silfir]

Wasn't he on one of the Cook Islands?

[vogonpoet]

Wherever he is, I think we can wait until he gets back... no need to DHL the man a postcard to his honeymoon suite... not that there wouldn't be a certain humour in such an action...

[Epythic]

With all respect for the wiki, it's an outside source and not affiliated with this forum... And just like jaakkos' server, it's highly possible for a newbie to find this forum and not know about the wiki, equally likely as he is to not know about the server - he would find out about the wiki from people talking about it and from Ascyron's signature instead of - you guessed it - a stickied thread or an entry in the stickied ADOM Links thread. I'm not even sure what you're talking about. How does the wiki relate to new people knowing or not knowing about the server? Besides, it's located on a service that sometimes loads slowly and is ridden with ads (though overall bearable) - wouldn't it be much preferable if people can stay on this nice ad-free forum instead?
Forums are great for discussions, but I think wikis are way more useful for presenting facts (such as a list of links, or a list of reasons why TH sucks, or instructions on how to use jaakkos' server). And using the wiki for those things would bypass the whole sticky-threads issue, because obviously you dont need to make wiki pages sticky.

Then *maybe* make a thread with the link to the wiki and sticky it if you really really want to.


There's a lot of cool ADOM stuff people don't know about. Rather than randomly picking it up after weeks of lurking or posting ("Hold on, I can play ADOM over the internet? And other people can watch me play? Why didn't I know this?!") stickying the relevant threads would not only save us old forum nuts the trouble of seeping through the archives to post a link, it would instantly show people these things exist without having to stumble over them at some other point and then coming up with the courage to ask and risk sounding like a n00b - this is what I mean by newbie friendly. Even stickying the ADOM Links thread alone would go a long way.
But still, the only one that could maintain such a link list would be the thread starter, since he is the only one who can edit the first post. Too much power.


I'll definitely agree that spam is much more annoying than thread titles with typos. But both are annoying and there are no reasons not to fix them if asked to if you've got someone who can do that, right?
I dont *really* like it, but as i said somewhere above, I'm fine with basic typo fixes.


I don't want to come off like we're telling Thomas how to run his forum, that's what's making me feel somewhat reserved about holding a vote and dumping a community choice in his lap - it smells a bit of "Appoint this person or your community is sad", even if we don't mean it that way.
1. I wont sign my postcard with "The ADOM community" or anything like that, for I can only speak for myself. I'll sign it with Epythic, and give him a link to this thread. [EDIT: And I really dont care if you disagree about me contacting him. I think its a good idea to do it, therefore I will. Btw, remember that TB himself has said that he likes postcards, so I guess it *is* gonna be fine.]
2. Its just a recommendation, if he doesnt like it he can still burn the postcard. But that he might possibly not like it or get it wrong or anything is not a reason not to ask, or to tell him what we (each of us, not "The Community" (whatever that would be) -- but still votes are a great way to get an overview) would like


I am certainly fine with discussion, though. I feel a good moderator could add a lot to this forum
Wrong attidute.

A moderator cant really be a bad moderator if his only job is removing spam. I personally do not want him to do anything else.


Quote for truth. From my past experience on local forums one of problem is detecting good moderator. It has really nothing to do with being good player, having certain number posts, dedication to community etc. More like a blind guess which often goes wrong.
"Remove all spam threads, other than that just behave like everyone else" != "Here are the mod tools, use them, try to be a good mod"

The more tasks/powers a mod has, the more possibilities for him to fuck up there are.


Now how to reach Thomas?
As I said, I'll send him a postcard. No joke. If you want to contact him yourself, feel free, but this is what I will do.
But I'll wait for a few more days because a) I want a polished, creative front side and I do not have time *right* now and b) I want to wait till we've reached consensus on the issues we spoke about here.

[Grey]

I think the postcard idea is fine, and certainly can't do any harm.

I agree with everything Epythic says. A moderator should have the least power possible. Otherwise power corrupts, yada yada, or can be misused with good intentions and upset the community. I personally love the absence of moderators on this forum, and it's only the present spam problem that is causing any upset. Let's try and maintain our open and unmoderated community.

[Silfir]

Look, I'm all for clear-cut responsibilities and all that jazz. I didn't think correcting typos would already set off the alarms - and I guess it's the stickies that did it. I thought there was some degree of consensus that it would be nice to have someone who can sticky threads, but if that crosses the line to "too much power" to you...


Wrong attidute.

Let's not get into that one, shall we? As much as you could accuse me of naiveté I could accuse you of paranoia.

As for using the unofficial wiki to keep tracks of official forum threads in order to help newbies on the official forums... Of course, if Thomas decides to endorse the unofficial wiki instead of realizing his plans to make an official one, that's on the table. Not our decision though. (In the meantime, someone could start making the relevant wiki article, so I can link to that one in my own posts on non-stickied threads, as the idea of having a repository like that is very sound ;) )

[grobblewobble]

Honeymoon? Oops, I had no idea, I feel so stupid. :o


If you want to contact him yourself, feel free
No way, but I like the card you came up with.

[Necropassion]

I'm still with you on this.

Spam removal
Thread stickying
Typo-corrections

Can't see what harm these things would do to the forums, and I don't think that undertaking those responsibilities could corrupt all too much, this forum has a much too low danger level for that to happen.

[Epythic]

I'm still with you on this.

Spam removal
Thread stickying
Typo-corrections

Can't see what harm these things would do to the forums, and I don't think that undertaking those responsibilities could corrupt all too much,t his forum has a much too low danger level for that to happen.
(emph mine)

The problems I see with thread stickying:
- if the thread gets old and outdated and the mod disappears, we are stuck (bad pun, i know) with the thread...
- who gets to decide which thread is important enough to be made sticky?
- owner of sticky thread can still modify the post at will -- and that way basically put any message he likes right on top of the forum

And I still fail to understand why you think we'd *need* this. Can't we just stick to spam removal? Which is why this thread was started, and what the opening post says?

[modular]

Looks like there is consensus about the spam removal but not about anything else. Since a decision based on implementing force and power should be based on consensus imho, it seems obvious that mod power should be limited to spam removal only (unless a different consensus can be reached).

Lets not try and make things unnecessary complicated. There is no need to splatter a rat with a brutal large eternium hammer of devastation (-1, 7d10+16).

[Necropassion]

A good moderator would never leave. If he leaves chances are we're also stuck with spam again. 'Tis the way life works (on the internet).

Let's just all agree that having the old TH sucks thread along with the ADOM links and the server thread stickied then?

Modify his post? Who on Earth would do such a thing?!

I do see your points, though. I'd also say spam removal would suffice, but having the above mentioned threads stickied would reduce the need for newbies at the forum to ask things that have already been thoroughly covered elsewhere. A positive side-effect of this would be that Soirana wouldn't have to lose his temper over thread-spamming. :)

[Silfir]

Regardless of what the moderator is going to do, of course he isn't supposed to simply disappear. That's true whether or not he or she can sticky threads. Thomas should appoint someone he is reasonably sure won't disappear without warning if at all.

Who decides which threads should be stickied? The moderator, of course, based on the input of the users. It would have to be a strange kind of moderator who finds something corrupting in that power. "Today I will show everyone the size of my e-penis by stickying a thread from one year ago that absolutely no one cares about! Gwahaha"?

Anyone who posted anything has the power to edit any of his posts at any time, and bump his thread back to the first page by posting in it, and I haven't witnessed a single case where someone did any dumb shit with that power. But okay, let's say someone who created a thread worthy of being stickied suddenly decides to go batshit insane. What happens? You unsticky the thread. Again, people can be disruptive and do dumb shit like change their posts at any point already. Why should they start doing it because there are suddenly stickied threads? Is the sticky pin the seed of all evil or something?



This is an extremely civilized forum with a refreshingly scarce amount of morons in it. That's the result of this forum consisting of nice people from countries all over the world and ADOM being a game that is generally not enjoyed by morons. It is not whatsoever related to us having no moderator - other forums that go unmoderated for a prolonged amount of time go to hell right quick. A bad moderator - as in, one who lets his power and position get to his head and starts using his power to force his opinions and animosities on people - could do a lot of damage. A lazy moderator will not do anything, and essentially the forum will be the same as it has been with only Thomas pulling the strings, which went fine enough for one and a half years now (maybe possibly it will have some mildly out of date stickied threads). A good moderator will relieve Thomas of quite some stress and otherwise stay out of everyone's way.

[gut]

You're all a bunch of pansies.

> dont care if you disagree about me contacting him.
> I think its a good idea to do it, therefore I will

Now we plan to fight spam with spam. Delicious.

Jan Erik has mentioned that he deletes 1 zillion spams
per day from the brinkster forums, so that's not the
answer. For all this belly-aching over how we 'don't
have an attentive mod' and 'we don't have no mod at
all!', please notice that we are just now having some
trouble with this, and it's because the admin is on
honeymoon. Stop your griping and deal with it for a
few days. TB will be back in a while, maybe impliment
a different registration scheme (which is exactly what
he did last time this happened about a year ago), and
everything will be fine.

You pansies would never make it on usenet : )

[modular]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_PwRm7Nro&feature=related

@ 3:40

[Epythic]

A good moderator would never leave. If he leaves chances are we're also stuck with spam again. 'Tis the way life works (on the internet).
The way life works on the internet is that people *do* leave from time to time. Even mods.


Let's just all agree that having the old TH sucks thread along with the ADOM links and the server thread stickied then?
No.


Modify his post? Who on Earth would do such a thing?!
Some bad mod? Because he can?


You're all a bunch of pansies.

> dont care if you disagree about me contacting him.
> I think its a good idea to do it, therefore I will

Now we plan to fight spam with spam. Delicious.
Let me say it again.

> dont care if you disagree about me contacting him.

Thomas opted in, therefore by definition it is no spam.


Jan Erik has mentioned that he deletes 1 zillion spams
per day from the brinkster forums, so that's not the
answer. For all this belly-aching over how we 'don't
have an attentive mod' and 'we don't have no mod at
all!', please notice that we are just now having some
trouble with this, and it's because the admin is on
honeymoon. Stop your griping and deal with it for a
few days. TB will be back in a while, maybe impliment
a different registration scheme (which is exactly what
he did last time this happened about a year ago), and
everything will be fine.
And that means we cant ask him to appoint a mod?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_PwRm7Nro&feature=related

@ 3:40

Oh yeah I found that film (mostly) funny.

Nothing todo with the topic, but I love how their king is presented @4:57. In one breath:

"Presenting our royal highness, our illustrious King Julian the 13th, self-proclaimed lord of the lemurs, etcetera etcetera, hooray everybody."

Not sure if it is "illustrious", and I guessed "highness" too... this thing pushed my english skills to the limit.

[Silfir]

Isn't it contradictory to ask Thomas to appoint a mod, and in the same breath let shine through that you work under the assumption the mod he appoints will almost invariably become corrupted by his power (for instance, edit posts just because he can) or disappear eventually anyway (nevermind the good things he can do while he's there)? If you're going to be this distrustful, why advocate getting a mod at all?

And gut is right in one thing. This problem cannot be solved either way until Thomas returns. He's on vacation, after all.

[gut]

Iridia was a mod on the brinkster forums, and she never got out
of hand. To my knowledge, she just deleted spam, and it stayed
that way for years. They didn't sticky anything there either, and I
prefer it that way. Mod or no mod makes no difference to me. The
thing that somewhat irritates me is the asking. It's like a free-for-all.

"Can I be mod?" "Can I be mod?" "Oooh, oooh, me me me me!"
That's how it was read in the brinkster forums when they were
appointing mods there, and it sounded childish and silly. It seems
like it's starting here as well, and it doesn't even have a snowball's
chance of happening. Then after a mod is appointed the posts
invariably change to something more like "So-and-so hasn't even
logged in for 3 days, and it seems like they've been getting really
lax as of late. I think I would make a better mod than that! Appoint
me instead!" I wish we could avoid that silliness with a simple
change to the registration scheme.

If anyone should be appointed mod here it should be Darren.

[Epythic]

Isn't it contradictory to ask Thomas to appoint a mod, and in the same breath let shine through that you work under the assumption the mod he appoints will almost invariably become corrupted by his power (for instance, edit posts just because he can) or disappear eventually anyway (nevermind the good things he can do while he's there)? If you're going to be this distrustful, why advocate getting a mod at all?
For dealing with spam? As I said, a mod can hardly misuse his power if there is the clear rule that must only delete spam.

Of course now there is the problem of defining what is spam... guess what, thats why we need someone with common sense.

Of course if he really goes havok then we got a problem.

But I was more talking about its-for-your-own-good kind of corruption.


And gut is right in one thing. This problem cannot be solved either way until Thomas returns. He's on vacation, after all.
Does that mean we can't discuss it?


Iridia was a mod on the brinkster forums, and she never got out
of hand. To my knowledge, she just deleted spam, and it stayed
that way for years. They didn't sticky anything there either, and I
prefer it that way. Mod or no mod makes no difference to me. The
thing that somewhat irritates me is the asking. It's like a free-for-all.

"Can I be mod?" "Can I be mod?" "Oooh, oooh, me me me me!"
That's how it was read in the brinkster forums when they were
appointing mods there, and it sounded childish and silly. It seems
like it's starting here as well, and it doesn't even have a snowball's
chance of happening. Then after a mod is appointed the posts
invariably change to something more like "So-and-so hasn't even
logged in for 3 days, and it seems like they've been getting really
lax as of late. I think I would make a better mod than that! Appoint
me instead!" I wish we could avoid that silliness with a simple
change to the registration scheme.

...which will probably be broken again, while appointing a mod is a more permanent.. eh, workaround. Although thats masking the symptoms, not going for the root (= spammers get through).


If anyone should be appointed mod here it should be Darren.
Why that? Postcount doesnt really say alot... and post quality is roughly equal for the more active members. One thing that speaks for Grey, as far as I know, is that he has been around for much longer than this forum exists.
(not that I wouldnt be fine with grey, just questioning why you picked him...)



Anyway, maybe it *is* better if we don't make a recommendation on who to choose... still, I'm going to send the postcard, and if only to tell TB that theres some spam getting through (well, actually the real reason I'll do that is that I want to finally complete the damn postcard quest...)

[Silfir]

Darren would be a fine choice regardless of his post count. Gut knows him long enough not to found his decision on that ;)

I would also fully trust Darren to not ever doom our forum by placing nonsensical stickies, and to get the spelling of mis-spelled forum threads right, while we're at it. So in my book he would be the perfect moderator.

[gut]

> not that I wouldnt be fine with grey, just questioning
> why you picked him.

I feel really awkward saying positive things about Grey : )

1. He's already the official newsgroup maintainer, and if I'm not
mistaken, he's also the ADOM FAQ maintainer. I think it's just
consistent to have one guy modding both ADOM forums.

2. He's been on the ADOM scene since 1904, and his knowledge
of obscure ADOM trivia is second to none. He once actually scored
higher on my ADOM logic puzzle questions than I did, and I was
the guy who wrote them. The nerd.

3. He's had a consistent logging frequency for years.

4. He's already demonstrated good organizational skills.

5. He's already written a roguelike game himself, so he would
have a better perspective than most on what would be sticky
worthy for all forum threads, not just the 'general ADOM discussion'
thread that most users frequent.

6. He has his own website for distributing his own game, so probably
has some experience with web-related matters. I'm not saying this
is difficult to come by, or that others don't have it, I'm just listing it
as a reason. The smaller the mod's learning curve, the better.

I can actually list more, but I have to go throw up now...

[Epythic]

7. He has the same opinion as me on what a mod should and shouldnt do. : )

[Silfir]

8. He is a swell guy with a distinct lack of being a moron (and certainly more reliable, trustworthy, and ADOM-addicted than I am). Though I would be sad about the lack of stickies. But I can still threaten to murder him in his sleep if it becomes necessary.

[Soirana]

1. He's already the official newsgroup maintainer, and if I'm not
mistaken, he's also the ADOM FAQ maintainer. I think it's just
consistent to have one guy modding both ADOM forums.


you mean that deserted place, which currently lost search function?

[gut]

As much as I'd like to blame Grey for the death of
RGRA, I can't. That place was a dead horse before
Planken left. Prolly that's why he left. Shame really,
considering how favorably it compares with forums,
but if you can't get people to use it...

It's still a valid point though.

[Soirana]

While Planken was on there were no problem with search function. Honestly i would not blame anyone about place being deserted.
Rather natural thing.

[gut]

What do you mean 'search function'?
That seems like a problem with google groups, not RGRA.

[Soirana]

works for other groups although. I will try another approach, but honestly without archeological search skill guide is going nowhere.

[Grey]

Wow, this thread has quickly degenerated from spam-hatred to praising me :) Can't say I disapprove ;)

I must say not all of the points are valid though - I'm not maintainer of RGRA (there is no such thing for newsgroups) and my web maintenance experience is quite limited (I've certainly never done any forum moderation). Also I do now and then have time away from the internet, so I could not be wholly relied on to always be here fighting the spam hordes. Two or three moderators all following the same rules would be best.

Of course we'll have to just see what TB says when he finally returns to look over his flock.

[gut]

> I'm not maintainer of RGRA

Well, I just hopped on over to google and used the
search function that Soirana says doesn't work. I
typed in the querry:

"darren grey" maintainer group:rec.games.roguelike.adom

and discovered that Grey is indeed only the Faq maintainer.
I always thought that Planken was the NG maintainer
because he always posted the 'newbies, please read the faq'
posts, but I suppose that's because he was the faq maintainer.

Duh.

[gut]

I was just having a snark at Soirana. It does seem
like the groups.google search function is screwed
up right now, but using the regular google site,
combined with the 'group:rec.games.roguelike.adom'
function works fine.

Hope that helps the skill guide.

[Soirana]

combined with the 'group:rec.games.roguelike.adom'
function works fine.

Hope that helps the skill guide.
thatis how i worked for last two segments... I will give try with nnseek.com if i figure how it works...

[Laukku]

it could be nice, for instance, to sticky those long time threads that try to keep track of things in the first post and that are informative to any new user and constantly need linking to. I'm thinking, for instance, of the "ADOM Links" thread, the "Ways to Die" thread and most importantly the thread concerning jaakkos' server,

IMO if any threads would get stickied, threads containing fairly trivial information such as the "Ways to Die" should not; only very useful and important threads should, such as "ADOM links" and Jaakkos' server thread. Dozens of threads might be interesting to somebody, but if a mod stickies each "interesting" thread, they will be harder to distinguish from the more important ones.

[Soirana]

now we got a problem.

[Silfir]

Oooooh yes :(

[Epythic]

wtf .

[Silfir]

Please use another expression.

[Epythic]

? .

[grobblewobble]

Welcome to our newest member, Rocco12
The irony, it bites..

[Silfir]

"What the fuck" is a bit too fitting ;)

[WeReallyNeedaMod]

The irony, it bites..

Well, that problem is hereby solved.

Yes. I will delete myself once this is over. My true identity shall remain a secret.

[wtf]

"What the fuck" is a bit too fitting ;)

:) .

[DumbleDoor]

I personally enjoy the recent shoe-related discussion and think it should be encouraged to flourish more. Who knows what insights may come about. Embrace the footwear and you will satisfy your sole.

On a more serious not, I'd be quite happy to volunteer for moderator myself. I don't see any reason why we need just one either. However I also agree with Epythic that other than the spam there is no need for a moderator - things like mending misspelled threads titles is unnecessary luxury. The actual moderator should not be advertised or labeled as such either - no extra forum title or anything like that. It's purely a janitorial role.

Clearly you need to become smarter. There is no such thing as a shoe related discussion. Shoes are not casual. There is only shoe related SPAM!

[Ascaron]

Well, that problem is hereby solved.

Yes. I will delete myself once this is over. My true identity shall remain a secret.

Indeed, it is solved.

It's not quite so hard to work out who you are if you know who was on just before that account was made, hmm? :)

[Grey]

Yeah, I really don't want the forum having these sorts of messages getting through. Something needs to happen soon.

[Cripplefish]

Okay the shoes were bad enough but incest rape porn ?

I've only been on these forums for a short time and have been enjoying the easy-going feel but someone really needs to start waving that eternium ban hammer of penetration around :cool:

[vogonpoet]

I guess all the chatter here devoted to ones love 'of penetration' is like a red rag to a bull for the porn bots :-/

[Travis Prue]

I miss the G Rated shoe discussion. :<

[gut]

of penetration
beggar juice
Hotz
Hotz and gang
drunk bloated strained coward
wicked spear
murderous staff
forbidden information
lightning balls

killed the shopkeeper
killed him in darkness
necromancy
he critically hit me
abuse strength
herb scumming
human assasin

sacrificed his corpse
traded the corpse
cute dog's corpse
ate his corpse
ressurected the corpse


Now I ask you, what in all that could possibly
be taken the wrong way?

[pblack]

Spam is really growing fast, has anybody actually sent any emails to TB already?

[Sadface]

I miss the G Rated shoe discussion. :<

Me too :( I saw the new ones and cringed. *cries*

But that list is pretty funny gut ;)

[Silfir]

I reported the threads. There's hardly more we can do :(

[boris_pankov@inbox.ru]

Probably its hardly doable but it would be really great to have Rating of the post.
And make every ancient member possible to vote "-" for the post.
When there are 5, 10, or whatever number of minuses present, the post is deleted.
(I`ve seen something like this before on some linuxoid forum)

[gut]

The TH sucks thread would have been long gone
by now : )

[Epythic]

Not if it was also possible to vote "+" -- bad idea in general, but here it would probably zero things out. Roughly.

[gut]

Who exactly is going to vote '+' on that abomination? You? Not me : )

[Epythic]

Me neither.

Dont remember what Grey position was on this but I can imagine...

EDIT: Eh wait, I would vote +, because TH does suck

[fazisi]

Just become more active posters so that any undesired threads get pushed down the list onto the next page where they are usually forgotten. No moderation needed.
________
Washington dispensaries (http://washington.dispensaries.org/)

[Silfir]

Works for shoes, not so well for incest rape porn.

[boris_pankov@inbox.ru]

Insect rape porno? Oh my, I can hardly imagine that..

[grobblewobble]

Popularity votes on all topics just to get rid of the spam? No please.

> Just become more active posters so that any undesired threads get pushed down the list onto the next
> page where they are usually forgotten.

The problem is that spam is just like entropy. It will always increase.

[Silfir]

Insect rape porno? Oh my, I can hardly imagine that..

Why? All you'd have to do is tape a typical character death in the Bug Temple. And you know someone somewhere in this corrupted world would jack off to it.

[Travis Prue]

Why? All you'd have to do is tape a typical character death in the Bug Temple. And you know someone somewhere in this corrupted world would jack off to it.

You are a very disturbing individual...

[yisk]

Illegal incest rape porn!
With new keywords for google-bots this site will become much more popular. ж)

[gut]

> become more active posters so that any undesired threads get
> pushed down the list onto the next page where they are usually
> forgotten.

No no no no no. You don't understand this abomination that we
have created! We've pushed this thing off the first page at least
five times of which I'm distinctly aware. It won't die! It just
WON'T DIE! Some ADOM enthusiast will become interested in the
forums in a couple of months, check through the TITLES of the old
thread, and immediately click on the 'the TH talent sucks' header
before he even knows what he's doing. He'll glance at the last page
of the thread, and maybe *MAYBE* the preceding page, then his
fingers will start to itch...

[grobblewobble]

> He'll glance at the last page of the thread, and maybe *MAYBE* the preceding page
You just made me feel very guilty.

I did have a really good laugh when I discovered Soirana's secret message in this post:

i always feel bad by making posts like this. On other hand why i should use info but do not allow others:

http://www.geocities.com/adombot/items.txt

Includes item "weight" or reason why i always said TH gives loath of bread in cap with some gold next to it and potion of water to make it easier to swallow.

Hopefully this thread never dies.
Select the seemingly empty bottom line to view.

[gut]

Actually, I hope it lives forever as well. It's one of those love/hate
things.

[Laukku]

TB noted on his last blog post (http://www.biskup.net/blog/2009/08/14/what-an-amazing-time/) that it will be the "last for a couple of weeks". It was posted on 14 August, more than a month ago, so he probably will return from his honeymoon within a few days (if he hasn't already).

[Soirana]

i was relying on twitter

http://twitter.com/thomas_biskup

Aug17 claiming he goes for Emirates. Wife can do change guy in rather strange way, believe me.

[Sradac]

wtf? i go away for one month and now we have PORN spam?! we need a mod! and some kind of captcha for new users...

[Epythic]

Theres already the AndorDrakon (iirc) captcha...

[gut]

I think we've been betrayed. Someone from the forums
gave out the captcha answers to a spambot in exchange
for wealth and power... or something.

[Epythic]

Who could possibly be so evil?

*watches grey and gut pointing fingers at each other*

*points at them*

[gut]

I think it would have been someone who actually wanted
the forums to have a mod. Notice the really irritating spams
didn't appear until someone posted about the forums not
needing a mod. Kinda seems like someone was out to make
a point.

[fazisi]

Get TB's wife to mod this place. She'll either clean it up good or shut it down and beat Tom for having such a perverted fanbase.
________
FREE SEX (http://www.fucktube.com/)

[grobblewobble]

Let's keep this one on the first page too. Let's fight spam with spam.. ahum.

[Epythic]

Postcard's finally finished. Not overly pretty, but will get the job done. Will send it tomorrow. Ahh I always wanted to do that... feels great. :) Hope the Post doesnt loose it or something, theres no return address on it...

[Grey]

I suggest further discussion on direct and immediate solutions should be made here (http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=82). I don't know why I didn't think of making on of these topics before - TB has in the past responded to these fairly quickly. Hopefully the issue will get due attention soon.