Interview with Thomas Biskup at Roguetemple

[Laukku]

This was recently posted:
http://www.roguetemple.com/interviews/thomas-biskup-interview-1/

Apparently a second part will be posted soon!

[pblack]

It really surprised me that TB never finished ADOM =P.

[Epythic]

OMG he's never won his own game. :D

Interesting blogs? This one (http://www.adom.de/blog) is quite interesting. What a shame it is updated so rarely... ;)

[Cripplefish]

It really surprised me that TB never finished ADOM =P.


To be fair he did write the game. Took me longer to get my first win than it took him to get to 1.1.1 :)

Also he knows all the secrets anyway (maybe even some wierd tome stuff ?) so perhaps the game isn't as mysterious for him...:D

[Laukku]

Also he knows all the secrets anyway (maybe even some wierd tome stuff ?) so perhaps the game isn't as mysterious for him...:D

But we know more tricks, strategies and things to exploit. ;) (Gremlin bomb, wish engines and many more.)

[fazisi]

It probably goes to show just how (don't know how to say it without being offensive) poorly Tom made ADOM. It's a great game and all but it took years for most people's first win and that normally used some form of scumming or cheating. Even most "fair" wins use item or level scumming of some sort just to be able to get past the "patient" midgame. If patience is jumping up and down the ID, farming waters and such, waiting for you to get another 3 levels before you go to the next quest, it just goes to show there wasn't the same amount of play testing that goes into other games.

Granted, I still love ADOM and will one day have a fair won game myself in the far distant future. But until the RNG stops dropping blocks of stone onto my poor level 2 head in the VD or spawning up a tension room of fire vortices on D:7 before I even get to the "patient" part of the game, I'm thinking I'm going to be saving the puppy a lot more often than I would like.
________
BMW K75 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/BMW_K75)

[FantomFang]

heh, stone blocks such, but with vortices, it's all about darkness. Used well, darkness makes them into jokes of an enemy.

[gut]

I might be mistaken, but I think TB really made the
game more for spoiled players.

It took years for my first victory, and most of that
was without spoilers, but with save scumming for
experimenting. When I started getting spoiled, the
game became much easier, and a legit win wasn't
far away. Honestly, if one knows about morgia, and
moss, the game's a breeze.

[Epythic]

It probably goes to show just how (don't know how to say it without being offensive) poorly Tom made ADOM. It's a great game and all but it took years for most people's first win and that normally used some form of scumming or cheating.

That's exactly what I love about ADOM: you don't win after a few weeks of play. It does take years.

Later on you speak about how "[unfair and scummy tactics are required]". Another point I like: it's just not your typical you-can-beat-any-monster-you-meet-any-time game. Sometimes you just have to make your char give everything. "Fair fight" just means "play by their rules". If I can have an advantage, I'll take it, thanks.
(With the exception of cheating of course)

Oh and then there is permadeath. Lets do a thought experiment. Just imagine for a second that you could save/load freely in ADOM. That would make the game waaay easier, wouldnt it? Compare the difficulty to current first person shooters. Now put permadeath back into the equation and look at what changes and what doesnt.

[Andy Williams]

Honestly, if one knows about morgia, and moss, the game's a breeze.

I don't think any version of the game can be described as "a breeze", at least in the larger context of CRPGs in general and the race-class combos in ADOM. There is so much luck dependence. In ADOM, the to-hit algorithm change in v1.1.0 (IIRC) changed the game considerably. I don't remember the math, but it went from something like 1d20+bonuses to 1(d20+bonuses). This is not documented anywhere I can find easily. Whatever the facts, I personally have found melee characters in ADOM 1.1.1 very frustrating. Rangers doubly so, of course. I can't get a true dual-wielding (admittedly dark elven) ranger past the Water Temple in 1.1.1.

This gets back to the criticism one of the web sites had. Not enough prerelease testing. If dual-wielding PCs are impossible, why have them in the game?

On balance: I found g10 to be one of the best balanced versions of the game, because of the extensive pretesting. Version 1.1.1 is noteworthy in its bias towards spellcasters.

[Silfir]

Good roguelike players can get lucky after a month or two... The "it takes several years" thing is not a hard and fast rule. It depends a lot on experience and "getting" a couple of things, and knowing facts and details about the game that can make surviving much easier.

It's really all about the permadeath. Players used to mainstream games are used to being able to make mistakes and retry with few hassle. ADOM is all about not making mistakes, or rather, making only mistakes you can survive, and avoiding the few really, really deadly ones.

If you value your time a lot and prefer your games to give you several chances and play games to arrive at the set ending point primarily and experience well-crafted stories along the way, you shouldn't play ADOM. Roguelikes are all about the procedurally generated content giving enormous replay value and it's a strategy game first and foremost. If the game can remain fun for you even if you die, since you get to kill loads monsters in completely new environments with different characters with basically zero waiting (as this game has no noticable loading screens or other immersion breakers anywhere), then ADOM might be the right game for you.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

I only won the game once, but I can attest to the fact that it can be won without scumming. In that win I didn't use any scumming at all, not even standard grinding to get levels. I just went from mission to mission facing what the RNG threw at me.

Now of course, that was with a wizard. Perhaps with other classes scumming is absolutely necessary, especially if you want to play with unbalanced features like dual wielding as Andy was pointing out.

I can also attest to the fact that it is possible to get at least as far as the Mana Temple without spoilers. I did it, after years of playing. I did use the GB back then but I was careful to only use it for stuff I already knew, i.e. for example I would go to the monster list to search for the effects of a corpse that I already knew but didn't remember. If there are any noobs reading this I really recommend playing without spoilers, it's lots of fun. And you get really excited when you discover some of the stuff.

[gut]

>> Honestly, if one knows about morgia, and moss, the game's a breeze.

> I don't think any version of the game can be described as "a breeze"

Try this experiment then. Roll a DEra, visit the DDL, check for a
morgia/moss square, if you don't find one re-roll. Within 5 minutes
you'll have your square. Stay there, scumming herbs until your
have Wi, To, and De all to 27. Note, if you want to starvation scum,
you can do considerably better. You can use prayers for food to
speed things up a bit, and in a pinch you can go sell some herbs
for ration money. Seriously, doesn't it make the rest of the game
rather 'breezish', even if you dual wield?

: )

[gut]

I actually just did this experiment myself, out of curiousity.

Within 3 minutes, I had my morgia/moss square,
and a square of stoma/pepper to boot. 12 minutes
from then, I had 41 blessed moss, 60 blessed
morgia, 20 blessed peppers, and 20 blessed stoma.
I'm not even counting non-blessed herbs. Within
another 20 minutes, I would have my stats set for
the game, and enough stoma for an immediate crowning
at my first altar. That means perma-bless, lucky,
fate smiles, an immunity, and a good artifact.

Breeze.

[warheart]

I've won twice with dual wielding rangers (both GE), harder than 1h weapon + shield, but quite doable.

[Epythic]

and a good artifact.

such as thunderstroke

[gut]

You mean 'true aim', but yeah.
Rangers only have a 50% chance of getting
something good. Still, it has a use.

[Epythic]

First, I was thinking of archers.

Second, I meant the Obsidian Quarrel "Thunderstroke".

Or were we talking about rangers and I just had luck that they get one of those missiles too?

[gut]

> Or were we talking about rangers and I just had luck
> that they get one of those missiles too?

Yep, I was talking about dark elven rangers, and one
of their craptastical crowning gifts is 'true aim'.

[Andy Williams]

Try this experiment then. Roll a DEra, visit the DDL, check for a morgia/moss square, if you don't find one re-roll. Within 5 minutes you'll have your square. Stay there, scumming herbs until your have Wi, To, and De all to 27. ... Seriously, doesn't it make the rest of the game rather 'breezish', even if you dual wield?

I doubt it, but will give it a try, thanks.

[boris_pankov@inbox.ru]

"1d20+bonuses to 1(d20+bonuses)".
Andy, I don`t want to be rude, because I respect you for yer work done on guide book but can you please tell me the difference between 1d20+bonuses and 1(d20+bonuses)? I really didnt get it.

EDIT: we roll d20 and get 10 for examole
bonus is.. lets say 5
so we have 1*10+5 = 15 and 1*(10+5) = 15
me no understander, no sirrah

[Laukku]

"1d20+bonuses to 1(d20+bonuses)".
Andy, I don`t want to be rude, because I respect you for yer work done on guide book but can you please tell me the difference between 1d20+bonuses and 1(d20+bonuses)? I really didnt get it.

Dice are explained in the manual, but I'll explain some anyway: in the former formula first you roll one 20-sided die and then add the bonus. In the latter, you roll a die that has 20+bonus sides: if the bonus is 10, you roll a 30-sided die.

EDIT: In the former formula,if the bonus is +10, the result is always 11 or higher. In the latter, the minimum remains 1.

[boris_pankov@inbox.ru]

Oh! I see now of course its looks like this: 1*d(20+bonuses)
it was just "(" in the wrong place ))))

[Grey]

2nd part of the interview is now up:

http://www.roguetemple.com/interviews/thomas-biskup-adom-part-2/

Includes some talk on development of iADOM, JADE, and mention of an ADOM prequel that he coded many years ago but never quite finished.

[The Metro Gnome]

Wow, that's the first time I have ever seen TB. And is iAdom supposed to be an Iphone app? Because I love the idea!

[Laukku]

mention of an ADOM prequel that he coded many years ago but never quite finished.

It's called JDND, and is probably the secret J**D project he mentioned a few years ago in his blog: http://www.adom.de/blog/2008/02/08/getting-side-tracked/