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F50
04-07-2008, 04:47 PM
The thread Dungeon Danger Levels, an interesting idea came up that I would like to discuss further



3. I don't know if dungeons are generated mid game, but we could have something like, lets say you have a dungeon that's equivalent to level 10 on a mountain somewhere... years of game time go by and it hasn't been touched by the player or sacked by some NPC. Gradually this dungeon danger level will increase. When it hits certain milestones, like level 20, 30, 40, new level 1 dungeons are created in the nearby area. This would indicate that untamed areas would become more dangerous over time if nothing is done to check their growth.


Dungeons changing allows the player to return to an area or stay relatively in one place. You don't have to take huge treks to another area, just go to a dungeon that you haven't been to before a little ways from where you currently are. If the world doesn't change dynamically, you will ultimately end up progressing linearly from a low danger zone to a high danger zone. Furthermore, this allows the player to start wherever he/she wishes (if dungeons near towns are less dangerous then the player can start near any town, but that is still quite free and intuitive) and the rest of the world will get more dangerous so that moving in any direction will make your next stop. Instead of causing the player to follow a path, the path follows the player so to speak (assuming the player has no interest in a main quest).

So how should/could the JADE world change once the game has begun?


1. places that are left alone become more dangerous.

2. More places appear in areas left alone. (I think these should be more than just dungeons, see Overmap Alternatives to Dungeons thread).

3. Locations encourage similar locations to flourish and different ones to wither.

For example, say you have a town next to a small orc dungeon. It does not make sense that the small orc-based dungeon will get a lot more powerful over time. Surely the town would be more prudent than to leave the caves unchecked until they have huge masses of orcs swarming down upon them! The orc dungeon should not get stronger over time, but perhaps even become weaker. On the other hand, a nearby trading post will become stronger faster, assuming the trading post is significantly smaller than the town.

This should also apply to encounters. There should be more orcs running around an orc dungeon and fewer orcs where a gnoll fortress ravages the countryside.

Worst Player... ever
04-07-2008, 07:01 PM
I like all of this, especially your principle surrrounding 3... we should account for the actions of NPC adventurers and militia. And likewise, large quantities of orcs, undead, and whatever other nasties in an area might cause a town to shrink in size, too, or become an abandoned ghost town - a dungeon in and of itself.


This should also apply to encounters. There should be more orcs running around an orc dungeon and fewer orcs where a gnoll fortress ravages the countryside.

Not sure about this though. I can see your point, but I believe it could potentially cause monotony. Plus I don't see gnolls, to take your example, as being nearly as much of a threat to orc tribes as a human town would be. I also think it would probably be harder to program.

I'm more of the idea that an orc controlled dungeon would increase the level of disorder in an area, so you'd have more of every kind of lower level monster. More lower level undead/Necromancers, more goblins, more gnolls... even though they wouldn't necessarily be friendly with the orcs, they do indirectly help each other by making organized human/demihuman efforts in the area more difficult.

reich
04-07-2008, 08:40 PM
This would indicate that untamed areas would become more dangerous over time if nothing is done to check their growth.

but what if we had a PC that spends time on business in cities and is not a regular Tomb Raider ;). The world gets more and more dangerous and soon we have a hellish place. Like having the Dwarven Halls around every corner!!:eek:

Worst Player... ever
04-07-2008, 09:33 PM
but what if we had a PC that spends time on business in cities and is not a regular Tomb Raider . The world gets more and more dangerous and soon we have a hellish place. Like having the Dwarven Halls around every corner!!

Well, the idea is that places near a city would always be reasonably safe, unless something earth shattering happens to that city. But if you want to try and make bigger profits by selling your cooked lizards and bronze bracers at that village near the skull-shaped mountain, then it should be hellish.

I'd made a suggestion somewhere that town prices should be influenced by the danger of the area around it... so you would need to balance risk vs. profit.

Plus you could hire guards, if that's something that JADE will allow. Or even hire adventurers to clean out dungeons for you. That's certainly something that a very rich traveling merchant would do. :)

I don't know if JADE will encompass any of this, but I really like all this stuff. A good dynamic world writes its own plot.

Ars
04-07-2008, 11:15 PM
It's definitely possible to make a dynamic, ever-changing world, Dwarf Fortress is a good (and only?) example of this. But the thing to think about is that how dynamic can a world be while still sporting the possibility to make in-depth sidequests like thought out in this post (http://www.adom.de/forums/showpost.php?p=1118&postcount=6). If the world changes itself too much all the time, quests cannot be much else besides claiming territory and trading and things like that (+the main plot), which don't need a location to stay relatively stable.

But then again maybe it can easily be done so that it won't change the worlds balance too much. Larger settlements would mostly stay where they are, though smaller villages, farms and dungeons might perish with no action from the PC. Just make the "ongoing war" slow-paced enough.


Also if an area is left unchecked, with no opposing forces to battle the dominant power, it should rise in power/danger only in an ever-slowing pace. After all there is a limit how many orcs or men can live off a certain area.

And if there indeed are NPC parties that can act like the PC (raiding dungeons etc.) it should definitely be possible for the PC to command them. Though they might just get killed in the quest you assign them to, but that's life.