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myrddin
04-08-2008, 09:47 PM
I'd like to see gemology upgraded a bit to be more useful in JADE.

Here's my idea which is partly based on the assumption that one of the things gems were supposed to do in ADOM was have a way of carrying around wealth without the weight of gold.

First, when you mine instead of just finding gems it would be cooler if you found uncut gems or say a diamond lode. (Kind of like when you mine for metals you find ore). Then you have to [a]pply your gemology skill while wielding a gem cutting tool to cut them into a diamond or sapphire or what have you. These gems would then be worth a lot of gold so you could carry around some good wealth with little weight. You could even implement it so that the uncut gems you find have a quality factor that affects how successful you will be at cutting the gem and help determine the actual value. So a quality 10 uncut diamond will be harder to cut but worth a lot more if successful.

These gems could then be given a worth of maybe 10k-1m depending on stone and quality.

If you don't have the gemology skill maybe you could have certain NPC's or a specialty shop in a town where they will cut gems for you for a fee.

Tannis
04-09-2008, 12:22 AM
Also, you could have a chance to ruin a gem if your cutting skill is too low, which would give you an incentive to start on simple gems like quartz or topaz.

myrddin
04-09-2008, 09:04 PM
Also, you could have a chance to ruin a gem if your cutting skill is too low, which would give you an incentive to start on simple gems like quartz or topaz.

Exactly - that is what I meant to say as well. Your gemology skill, the type of stone, and quality of the stone would determine whether you successfully cut it into a gem or ruined it and turned into a worthless piece of something or other (that still might be worth 3-5 coins).

Sradac
04-10-2008, 02:03 AM
and you can go farther with that and put in the ability to craft rings/amulets out of those gems and other raw materials, maybe even put the gems into weapons/armor for effects. Maybe make your own wands too using different gems/crystals for the effect you want.

Grey
04-10-2008, 02:54 AM
I definitely like the cutting idea. Gems as a sort of lightweight secondary currency would be great. For this to work though every shopkeeper would have to accept gems as a direct substitute for gold (not just selling gems and using the cash for items).

Tannis
04-10-2008, 12:27 PM
I definitely like the cutting idea. Gems as a sort of lightweight secondary currency would be great. For this to work though every shopkeeper would have to accept gems as a direct substitute for gold (not just selling gems and using the cash for items).

Every item in the game could have an equivalent gold value, that fluctuates based on the location. So your gem in the city might sell at full price, but them gem might be worth less in a dwarven mining town. That could open the door for bartering in JADE and make the haggling skill more useful.

reich
04-10-2008, 12:33 PM
Gems as a sort of lightweight secondary currency would be great. For this to work though every shopkeeper would have to accept gems as a direct substitute for gold (not just selling gems and using the cash for items).

Or if gems had fixed prices - by a king's edict for example. Shopkeepers would buy and sell them for a stiff price, without the haggling/charisma/prejudice factors, allowing fluent exchange for currency at any given time (apart from some clandestine black market practices, that is).

The idea of putting gems in weapons is recycled from Diablo II, I'm against.

Tannis
04-10-2008, 02:26 PM
Or if gems had fixed prices - by a king's edict for example. Shopkeepers would buy and sell them for a stiff price, without the haggling/charisma/prejudice factors, allowing fluent exchange for currency at any given time (apart from some clandestine black market practices, that is).

The idea of putting gems in weapons is recycled from Diablo II, I'm against.

Diablo also involves killing monsters for XP, quests, NPCs, unique items, and a handy automap. Against those things too?

Face it, most RPG's aren't terribly unique. The trick is to take ideas and do it bigger and better. Diablo had what, 6 types of magic gems? If JADE has 35 magic gems with interacting effects, who gives a crap if Diablo did it first if JADE does it better?

F50
04-10-2008, 03:15 PM
putting gems in weapons and such should be a form of magic and be opposed to mindcraft and arcane/clerical magic. It should also be a different skill.

Tannis
04-10-2008, 07:24 PM
putting gems in weapons and such should be a form of magic and be opposed to mindcraft and arcane/clerical magic. It should also be a different skill.

I don't think a new skill is necessary. High skill levels in gemology, smithing, and maybe magic should be enough.

Sradac
04-10-2008, 07:55 PM
I just want to be able to make my own wands. The gem could determine the type of wand and the "other" material could determine the charges. If you take a wooden stick from a broke door and put a fire gem on it you could get a wand of fire with one charge. But if you have say an eternium ingot and a wand of knowledge it should give you a wand with magic map or identify or something else pertaining to knowledge with lots of charges in it. Im sure theres all kinds of raw materials to be found that could be used in wand creation.

Elone
04-11-2008, 01:08 PM
Whenever I think that the limit was reached, You think of something else to make ADOM2 more complicated, without even thinking how it will affect the game. I'm saying that for all ideas that make ADOM2 an overly complicated game: Add the temperature factor to the game, but is the feature really needed?

Will it make the game more enjoyable, or will it bog us down on our adventures half of the time? If you ask yourself that question, and manage to answer it by correctly weighing out all ups and downs, then yeah, the answer is worth that much more.

If you cant do that, then let Creator do it. He is very good at making a game, we should trust his decisions. After all, he single-handedly made a game that occupied us for several years.

Dont forget that all the coding is done by one person, while ideas come from all around. It's nice to dream, but make a single idea topic called "The stuff I'd like to see in JADE". At the same time, such topic would have a much higher chance to attract Creator's full attention.

As for this very idea, it's a very nice idea to be able to make your own wands, but if it happens, it will happen in a less complicated way.

"What do you wish for?"

Tannis
04-11-2008, 03:57 PM
Whenever I think that the limit was reached, You think of something else to make ADOM2 more complicated, without even thinking how it will affect the game. I'm saying that for all ideas that make ADOM2 an overly complicated game: Add the temperature factor to the game, but is the feature really needed?

Will it make the game more enjoyable, or will it bog us down on our adventures half of the time? If you ask yourself that question, and manage to answer it by correctly weighing out all ups and downs, then yeah, the answer is worth that much more.

If you cant do that, then let Creator do it. He is very good at making a game, we should trust his decisions. After all, he single-handedly made a game that occupied us for several years.

Dont forget that all the coding is done by one person, while ideas come from all around. It's nice to dream, but make a single idea topic called "The stuff I'd like to see in JADE". At the same time, such topic would have a much higher chance to attract Creator's full attention.

As for this very idea, it's a very nice idea to be able to make your own wands, but if it happens, it will happen in a less complicated way.

"What do you wish for?"

I don't think anyone here thinks all of their suggestions have a shot at making it in. It's partly to give TB inspiration, partly for fun. I do think, however, that lobbying for these in depth detailed changes is extremely important. Without them, JADE would be ADOM 2.0 on a larger scale, and TB has already said he doesn't want that.

Nezur
04-11-2008, 04:38 PM
It's nice to dream, but make a single idea topic called "The stuff I'd like to see in JADE". At the same time, such topic would have a much higher chance to attract Creator's full attention.
People posting their thoughts just provide a vast selection of ideas for the Architect to pick out. The JADE project management subforum has been created to ease the management of feature requests. If posters want to increase their chance of getting their ideas implemented they'll have to post the thoughts there as well in my opinion.

Tannis
04-11-2008, 04:50 PM
People posting their thoughts just provide a vast selection of ideas for the Architect to pick out. The JADE project management subforum has been created to ease the management of feature requests. If posters want to increase their chance of getting their ideas implemented they'll have to post the thoughts there as well in my opinion.

But to be fair this is the JADE discussion forum, and until we have JADE in our hands there's not much to talk about besides what we'd like to see. Hopefully once JADE is released this forum will be 10% feature requests as opposed to 90% like now. But given where we are that 90% is understandable.

Elone
04-11-2008, 06:36 PM
To which extents do your details go? There are surely much more vital things that gemology... What I'm saying, is that even tho ADOM1 already exists, ADOM2 has to be rebuilt from scratch. Yet, a whole plenty of people acts as if Creator is upgrading the existing ADOM1 engine. I'm not as much of a programmer as the Creator, but I do make games on my own. Trust me, you'll create details only once you've laid a basis. I remember trying to be realistic and give the idea of regex, but the thread failed because it was not so interesting to an average reader. Fine, it's not attractive, but it makes the games run.



Hopefully once JADE is released this forum will be 10% feature requests as opposed to 90% like now. But given where we are that 90% is understandable.


Please give some realistic requests that will bring JADE sooner to us, and not LATER. Some things are not to be rushed just yet, and keeping suggesting even the-most-minor details is bound to slow JADE down, if Creator starts reading all these posts. Especially if Creator starts implementing them.

By the 10:90% ratio, you probably meant that later on, strategy issues and questions will prevail. Another forum problem will arise when people start making different posts for exactly same questions without checking first, but I wont start about it yet. All in the good time.

"What do you wish for?" Jade. "That's a foolish wish, mortal!" But that's my only one...

Tannis
04-11-2008, 07:45 PM
To which extents do your details go? There are surely much more vital things that gemology... What I'm saying, is that even tho ADOM1 already exists, ADOM2 has to be rebuilt from scratch. Yet, a whole plenty of people acts as if Creator is upgrading the existing ADOM1 engine. I'm not as much of a programmer as the Creator, but I do make games on my own. Trust me, you'll create details only once you've laid a basis. I remember trying to be realistic and give the idea of regex, but the thread failed because it was not so interesting to an average reader. Fine, it's not attractive, but it makes the games run.



Please give some realistic requests that will bring JADE sooner to us, and not LATER. Some things are not to be rushed just yet, and keeping suggesting even the-most-minor details is bound to slow JADE down, if Creator starts reading all these posts. Especially if Creator starts implementing them.

By the 10:90% ratio, you probably meant that later on, strategy issues and questions will prevail. Another forum problem will arise when people start making different posts for exactly same questions without checking first, but I wont start about it yet. All in the good time.

"What do you wish for?" Jade. "That's a foolish wish, mortal!" But that's my only one...

I agree with all this, but would argue the point of this forum isn't to speed the release of JADE. None of these suggestions will or should be implemented for many many versions of JADE. The nuts and bolts that need to be done now are things like random map generation for towns and dungeons, how to program weapon marks and skill advancements, etc. Frankly, that's all for Thomas to decide and there's little we can say about that. So it's only natural we're thinking about trivial details, since it's ultimately the little details that make a game interesting.

Threads like this are harmless and good fun, so there's no need to get upset about them.

Nezur
04-11-2008, 08:34 PM
But to be fair this is the JADE discussion forum, and until we have JADE in our hands there's not much to talk about besides what we'd like to see. Hopefully once JADE is released this forum will be 10% feature requests as opposed to 90% like now. But given where we are that 90% is understandable.

Yeah, I definitely don't oppose the requests for features and the discussion about them. Maybe I worded my post badly. In fact I think posting ideas eases the work somewhat because the author doesn't have to ponder everything from beginning to end. Thus the first public version and the following versions might get released a little sooner like TB said. Besides I love talking about JADE. ;)

Sradac
04-12-2008, 10:00 PM
But to be fair this is the JADE discussion forum, and until we have JADE in our hands there's not much to talk about besides what we'd like to see. Hopefully once JADE is released this forum will be 10% feature requests as opposed to 90% like now. But given where we are that 90% is understandable.


yeah take a stroll over to the ADOM forum. How many feature requests do you see there? Seriously none. its all game discussions, tips, questions YAVP and YASD, bugs, and all kinds of humor and good stuff.