Using sling/rocks?

[Doalag]

I'm playing a hurthling priest, is focusing on sling/rocks a good idea? Hurthling train faster those but I don't remember to have seen many bullets nor to have any special rocks like slaying stuff. I wonder where is the balance, ie what's good brings slings/rocks?

[Elone]

If I was you, I would not focus on slings and rocks. You'll not always have enough rocks to stack, the only certain way is to get Mining to 100, and go mine up a level or two on ID. But then you'll have a new problem, rocks will get heavy; like, truly heavy. You'd do more hits and damage with a good crossbow. Personally, boomerangs are the best missile weapons (because you dont have to retrieve them after each shot). Also boomerangs, unlike any other returning weapons, can get prefixes and suffixes. You know... Troll beastfighters start out with a twohanded club, but that doesnt mean that you should use it; you should get rid of the club and go unarmed. I dont see other upsides to slings and rocks, oher than their availability (but as soon as you can encounter kobolds or raiders, you can get bows and arrows too).

[Macros]

In early game, you should use thrown rocks(hurtlings starts with lvl 4 in this weapon skill). You'll be able to kill most opponents just with rocks, and that's especially useful with weak classes(mindcrafters, merchants). In mid and late game, when you character is actually stronger you should switch to bows/crossbows(arrows/bolts of *foo slaying are relatively easy to find).

[spectre]

Just a few more bits: You can only get sling bullets of slaying and demon slaying, while arrows and bolts allow for the full range of slaying effects.

As to the boomerangs (and scrugari), they are interesting, but unfortunately very rare.
Other thrown weapons (spears, clubs, daggers) are generaly not worth it, if you find some of these that return when thrown, they're not as bad, but you simply can't beat the slaying power.
However, if you find a boomerang that penetrates armor and returns, that's something to consider bending over for.
I also find it annoying if the missles come in small stacks and I get to see the 'reload with' dialog over and over.
If playing an assassin, I tend to dick about with thrown daggers, but that's just for flavor (and because you start with half a dozen of them).

[kupiko]

Well rocks are great staff. In a first place you can have loads of them in early game by running from goblin rockthrower and collecting rocks he throws. Same with kobolds and collecting arrows ( 1 very good way to get arrows of slaying and so on in early game ). Rocks are very strong when using in melee. It gives you same bonuses as using them as missiles, so pretty big ones and you even use less energy to attack with them in melee so you get more hits. And missiles train faster so you get to be killer in melee in early game. Not that i would prefer it over throwing them but sometimes like doppleganger case it's really just better then any other ordinary weapon. Also try halfling ranger with 2 rocks in hands he is killing. 1 more thing Natural berserk doesn't work with them so that's dissapointment. But i prefer them over anything else in early game after that i switch to arrows of course and gathering arrows from kobolds. In hour you can have 300 arrows easily.

[reich]

Same with kobolds and collecting arrows ( 1 very good way to get arrows of slaying and so on in early game )

:eek:
you really can get slaying arrows from a kobold!?

[Doalag]

Thanks all for the tips. By collecting them, I choose to go for:
- I'll continue with sling/rock during the beginning, later when I'll have more mana and spells I'll switch to crossbow (because of better long range).
- I'll try the weird trick to use rock in melee and in hand. In fact I don't see why do that when you can continue using long range in melee but I'll give it try.
- I'll keep the boomerang idea for a future game.

Another question, I had sling bullets in missile slot and sling in long range weapon slot, it seems not work, how use those sling bullets?

EDIT: About bullets and sling: Arg no sorry I cancel my question, it's just the bullets wasn't identified so no long range weapon stats. :D

[kupiko]

:eek:
you really can get slaying arrows from a kobold!?

yeah and all the others as well it's just quite small chance but can save life.


I'll try the weird trick to use rock in melee and in hand. In fact I don't see why do that when you can continue using long range in melee but I'll give it try.

It's actually better eventually you get better attack and damage when using them in melee. You don't spend them so if you run out of them and you want to save few for tougher opponents then i prefer melee.
And if you have less dexterity then strength and melee based talents. You can have more attacks in melee when using them dual wielded. And so on...

[Doalag]

Thanks for the precision about using a rock for hand weapon, but what weapon category this is training?

[Elone]

How hard can it be to try it out yourself?

.#...
.#+##
..@..
.t.d.
.....

Try it out on them.

[kupiko]

Now i've got sweet idea! Did anyone try using Huge rock in melee? I didn't yet have a chance but if it provides the same bonuses and you're strong enough it might be fun :) Hope it doesn't crumble after few hits.

Anyway using rocks in melee doesn't train any weapon category.

[Zeno]

You can find thousands of rocks in ADOM, especially if you let the ants do their work. That means, an unlimited number of rocks. That's why they are a great choice for slaying weaker enemies, against whom you don't want to use "real" missiles.

In ToEF, my equipment is usually fire resistant stuff + rocks. This way you won't burn up your good missiles, and rocks (which melt very slowly) are good enough to defeat most enemies in ToEF.

If you train your rockthrowing, you will get an increased range for your huge rock throws, which sometimes can be useful. For example, you can throw a huge rock at the door to HK's tomb, which makes the fight easier.

[Elone]

Back when I was a newbie, I'd find Rocks with Metal Veins while digging, and I thought that they are nothing other than lv.2 rocks (in between small rocks and huge rocks). For rocks, you can get the Strong Thrower talent to help you. I usually get the same talent for any other thrown weapon, my favourites being boomerangs. it's quite easy to get level 6 in a Missiles cathegory, which adds the obvious two ranges more. You get enough to kill a single creature before it gets to you, or at least sever it. But still...

............#...
..H....-..@.#+##
................

You're dead. Crossbow range and damage still beats yours at all times. Dont remain on rocks too long.

[Doalag]

I feel the "no training" when using rock as hand weapon quite a big disadvantage. About range I have been chocked to quote that sling of long range (that you find quite often) are the best range I remember to have seen : 13(!) even heavy crossbow has shorter range. This is a point for using sling and rocks with sling.

So take your sling against crossbow and they are dead! :-p

Anyway I quited rocks for sling but when I'll have better PP (hoping the game won't steal me more PP!) I'll go for crossbow.

[Zeno]

Those things you can shoot from slings sometimes explode in fireballs... :)

[Elone]

Zeno reminded me of something that I keep forgetting. You can place various stuff into a sling, including gems of fire, 16000s statues, gloves of ice, and most shockingly, sling bullets(!). Anyway. I have 12 range on my boomerang and 13 range on my light crossbow. I remember having a winged boomerang stored somewhere. I didnt exactly understand their calculation, but it gave me 90 range (it should have been only 3x range). I STILL find rocks to grow obsolete quickly enough. Even my Healer knows enough magic to obliterate thousands of monsters. Not to mention her DV of 114 on very aggressive and 220 on Coward, she can handle melee easily. Plus three blessed boomerangs of slaying (they stack, and they're from a single wish); which all leaves very little place for 1d4 damage of rocks.

[Doalag]

Im' not sure but if I remember well at the level of my char dex/st and weapon skill have I won't have a range of 13, even with a heavy crossbow. But yep there's no winged rocks. :-) Boomerangs are so rare that it's difficult to go to it, I'll keep them for some future play.

[Zeno]

Slings can really shoot all these? I only knew about rocks, bullets, and gems... I also don't know how range is calculated, but crossbow range can reach values close to 1000 (Far Slayer + winged quarrel + training + talents).

[Doalag]

Ok ok I could be wrong about ranges. :-) I'll check another game where I'm specialized in crossbow, I used them because I made range comparison, I had a great sigh range.

[Elone]

Doalag, do I have to correct you thruout all your posts? =P



But yep there's no winged rocks. :-)


WINGED ROCKS >EXIST<, believe it or not!! Hurtling Archers get them as Heir, if I remember well.

Does any of you get an image of a (very certain) guy with glasses with rocks flying around him?

[Doalag]

Winged rock? Is there any rock with any attribute?? Perhaps you mean bullet? Those are so rare, so hope them winged is well... :)

[Elone]

Do you dare to doubt me!? I meant exactly what I said.