Scroll of familiar summoning

[Doalag]

I discovered in my recent game that I had 3 scrolls of familiar summoning and 2 already blessed. It's a bit a chock because I only see once before in a game I give up (and lost) before to use the scroll.

I have read the guidebook section so blessed it will be tamed and it's power will be dependent of the danger level. Now the guidebook is old so I prefer ask a question : Any advice about using them? I plan use one and keep two for much later, eventually one for D50. I also have 2 scrolls of danger but perhaps I should keep them for a shop or to build a pet training level later.

[Elone]

In Small Cave, creatures are generated 2x your level. If you are level 50 and read that scroll in Small Cave, you'll get a level 100-110 pet. Always read that scroll in Small Cave, unless you have a very good reason not to. Good luck.

[Macros]

Actually you should read scrolls of familiar summoning in DH. While in SMC you'll get experienced pet, but most likely it won't be too strong monsters, in DH you can very often obtain pets like greater molochs or greater earth elementals.

[Doalag]

Thanks for pointing this subtle point. Well for my first use of SoFS SMC isn't an option because my character is level 8, soon level 9 but enter DH1/DH2 is quite close. But later SMC could be an option.

What I don't like about DH1/DH2 is that it doesn't seem to generate very often very tough monsters. SMC is much more regular but as you pointed, only tougher because of more experience, something than can be given quite fast to a strong pet with priest support. Isn't DH1/DH2 generation also a bit dependent of the character level?

Also how about using SoD in DH2? I read somewhere that normal dungeon has a danger level limit of 45 and that DH2 is danger level 45.

EDIT: Out of subject, in a recent past game, I carefully avoid DH1 and once bellow I decided try go up the other way to see if there was a shortcut. So I wanderer DH2 believing only DH1 was a gamble! And I explored DH2 then find exit to DH1 and a shortcut between stairs in DH1. :D

[Elone]

Macros, I got a Greater Earth Elemental from a scroll of familiar summoning in SMC (and i find it to be a very good pet because it follows thru walls).

[Macros]

Hmm in SMC danger level is roughly equal to level of PC, but actually I never managed to get strong pets(as those from DH) there. Just checked it with one of my chars - from four blessed scrolls of familiar summoning I got ogre lord, giant slug, wraith and spectre. Are you sure you didn't read any scrolls of danger there?

[warheart]

Last SoFS I used was in D:50, got a greater earth elemental. Those, as pointed above, are really great pets since they go through walls and can regenerate wounds.

I remember some time ago I got a balor pet and was a bit annoying, since it kept summoning (non-hostile) monsters everywhere and I could barely pass through the different lvls of CoC :P

[Doalag]

Macros please could you make the same test in HD2? And what level your char is?

Well I could make a backup of my current game and test a bit but well I'm trying playing this game with no backup except few for safe purpose. I'll save it anyway and will test but after to have died... or win! who know? :p

And I agree ogre lord, giant slug, wraith and spectre aren't cool pet to get.

EDIT: Warheart, ok I'll pray not get a balror!:D Mmm make me think I should try praying for pets. Well ok many people probably already tried. :)

[Macros]

It was level 50 char which already has closed the gate(with all my chars I'm always making save before leaving Drakalor Chain). In DH2 usually you'll get a good pet - I've got there pets like greater molochs, greater earth elementals, balors(kinda annoying, because they can teleport and summon monsters) and emperor liches.

[Doalag]

Ok thanks, well I suspect that the character level changes a lot of thing. It's a shame I lost this game with a SoFS. Ha well I could try on a backup of my current game. first testing not allowed to use the result, then apply or not and keep the result. Weird I already know the result, during test I'll get a karmic dragon and for the game I'll get a level 40 rat! :D

[warheart]

Doing some tests atm with a save file i have from a previous char about to leave the chain. Went to the smc, read 6 scrolls of danger and some blessed SoFS, got this:
Ghost king, greater titan, greater air elemental, fire demon, 4 greater air elementals in a row, Mebdebereth the great blue wyrm, greater moloch, greater air elemental, fire elemental, air grue, chaos warlord, greater moloch, greater air elemental.

Ill do some tests now in dh2 and edit soon.

Ok, so I got to dh2 and I got:
Writhing mass of primal chaos, 2 greater earth elementals in a row, writhing mass of primal chaos, 2 greater earth elementals in a row, earth elemental, 2 greater earth elementals in a row, stone grue, writhing mass of primal chaos, 3 greater earth elementals in a row.

Gonna try now scintillating cave, edit coming soon.

What I got in lvl 9 of scintillating cave:
2 greater earth elementals in a row, writhing mass of primal chaos, greater fire elemental, writhing mass of primal chaos, greater fire elemental, 6 greater earth elemental in a row, 2 writhing mass of primal chaos in a row.

So well, not really much difference, quite easier to get to the smc though.

[Macros]

Try SMC without reading scrolls of danger there :)

[Elone]

I believe that SMC adjusts its level to yours whenever you enter, whenever you gain your level, or even when a new monster is generated. DL of SMC is same as PC level. It does not matter if you read scrolls of danger. Creatures that are generated will be generated according to your level. Upon generation, this may be the code:

{some_var = seed(15); #GENERATE (some_var * CLVL * 2)}

which will execute whenever a creature is generated, whether it's natural, or you summoned it, or wished for it (when you wish for "friends"). The code is a blind guess, so dont even dare to mention its uselessness to me. Because I'm aware of it, and I will shrug hostile critics off more easily than Emperor Lich shrugs off the Death Ray.

Scrolls of Danger will not be effective in SMC because SMC's DL will reset to it's appropriate every time (every levelup? every turn? every visit?) so yeah.

When you are low level, you have to choose:
A) SMC will give you creatures of higher level
B) DH will give you creatures of better type

When you are level 50, the choice is simple:
A) SMC will give you both at once.

Period.

[Macros]

When you are level 50, the choice is simple:
A) SMC will give you both at once.

I already said here that I entered SMC with lvl 50 character, and got pretty weak pets from blessed SoFS. Warheart wrote that increasing danger level in SMC does matter. So it's not true that at level 50 SMC will give you both at once.

[Grey]

The danger level of the SMC is exactly equal to your character level (rechecked every turn I believe) and will start to be corrupting when you hit level 10. However the monsters generated there are of a level dependant on the experience you've accrued, in such a way that for most chars they'll be around twice your level.

Anyway, as has been shown with actual testing DH2 is better. A couple of SoFSes can be handy on D50 to help clear the mobs, but don't rely on them being of much use against the balors. And be careful of strong pets turning on you if you're not a bard - they'll whup your ass in no time.

[warheart]

Ok, trying now without scrolls of danger. Here are the results (in smc, being lvl 50):
Frost giant, black slayer, giant rust monster, black dragon, frost giant, water elemental, red dragon, frost giant berserker, 3 frost giants in a row, giant rust monster, minotaur lord, black dragon, giant rust monster, frost giant berserker, 2 frost giants in a row, frost giant berserker, minotaur lord, white dragon.

Then I started again, reading first a SoFS, then a scroll of danger, then another SoFS, etc:
1st SoFS (no scrolls of danger): white dragon.
2nd SoFS (1 scroll of danger): moloch.
3rd SoFS (2 scrolls of danger): ancient red dragon.
4th SoFS (3 scrolls of danger): ancient white dragon.
5th SoFS (4 scrolls of danger): chaos warlord.
6th SoFS (5 scrolls of danger): greater air elemental.
7th SoFS (6 scrolls of danger): greater moloch.

Another try using this method:
1st SoFS (no scrolls of danger): black dragon.
2nd SoFS (1 scroll of danger): water grue.
3rd SoFS (2 scrolls of danger): swamp hydra.
4th SoFS (3 scrolls of danger): chaos warlord.
5th SoFS (4 scrolls of danger): swamp hydra.
6th SoFS (5 scrolls of danger): lich king.
7th SoFS (6 scrolls of danger): greater moloch.

Last try:
1st SoFS (no scrolls of danger): frost giant berserker.
2nd SoFS (1 scroll of danger): fire giant.
3rd SoFS (2 scrolls of danger): white unicorn.
4th SoFS (3 scrolls of danger): fire giant king.
5th SoFS (4 scrolls of danger): titan.
6th SoFS (5 scrolls of danger): fire demon.
7th SoFS (6 scrolls of danger): great karmic wyrm. (never seen one before off a SoFS, nice :))

So yes, I think it's kinda obvious scrolls of danger affect smc too.

[warheart]

The danger level of the SMC is exactly equal to your character level (rechecked every turn I believe) and will start to be corrupting when you hit level 10. However the monsters generated there are of a level dependant on the experience you've accrued, in such a way that for most chars they'll be around twice your level.

Anyway, as has been shown with actual testing DH2 is better. A couple of SoFSes can be handy on D50 to help clear the mobs, but don't rely on them being of much use against the balors. And be careful of strong pets turning on you if you're not a bard - they'll whup your ass in no time.


With that char I did the tests I used one in D50, got a greater earth elemental, and it was really great, killed kinda everything for me. Balors were a bit tougher, but they couldn't take out elemental's hit points + regen + me healing the elemental. After I closed the door I just left the elemental there, so no problem turning against me :) (actually elemental was standing next to the stairs when I got out of D:50 and it wasn't with me in D:49, although I think the game said it followed me up the stairs :S)

[Doalag]

warheart, why you didn't test DH2 with SoD? No effect there?

EDIT: And I want the grater karmic wyrn... not sure what my level 9 character will do if it goes untame.

EDIT2 : Swamp Hydra with 2 SoD and 4 SoD? The same than you can met in swamps? Not a really powerful thing when level 1.

[warheart]

warheart, why you didn't test DH2 with SoD? No effect there?

EDIT: And I want the grater karmic wyrn... not sure what my level 9 character will do if it goes untame.

The dh2 test was actually with SoD used, maybe I'll try tomorrow without and with progressive danger to see the results.

About the untame thing, in the last try I kept the 3 last pets (titan, fire demon, great karmic wyrm) and played with them a bit. Then killed the fire demon and went for the titan (way less powerful than the great karmic wyrm). Just so you know, the char is really powerful, lvl 50 ranger with needle and sting, some nice phase daggers, highly skilled with bows, 1k hp, 2 shoting molochs and things like that. So I shot an arrow to the titan and he destroys me in 1 turn, from 900 hp I had in that moment to -215 in a matter of seconds. Kinda powerful, you know :)

[Doalag]

I see :) I doubt a lower level character will get such tough stuff. Three pets is a bit too much to manage for a non Bard/Farmer because they can left. I do it sometimes but not with 3 stuff I can't tame again.

About taming/untaming I just lost 2 pets in a row, probably in less than 5mn!! One just because I forgot check health level after healing from a Vortex damage and after few more fights. Another right after, I was trying to disarm a trap that blind. After few failed try I decided to move a little to wait unblind instead of just waiting... and I move onto the pet and hurt it and it leaves and its a pet that I don't know to tame (Borys)! Thanks it wasn't a Titan. Damit, first time I lost Borys. :(

[Doalag]

Cough cough I finally used a SoFS because I succeed to get all my pets killed (except few very low level). :( That was in a small vault at CoC level with entrances to moving forest and DH1. So I get back this level and enter in DH1, used a blessed SoFC, no SoD and got a greater earth elemental level 1 (but it level up to 5 almost every 2 kills in a bit of DH2 and of DH1). Weird, it's level 48 when DH1 is danger level 40 and my character level 9. I saved and backup just before not to cheat but later to get it back and do some tests.

I agree the GEE is quite fun with its ability to go through walls and its strong hits. It also throw often hudge rocks and that is quite fun! But on another way it is too strong for this part of the game and more, its ability to go through walls isn't easy to manage. That will remove an important control of the pet. One pets problem is they break a wait order if you are attacked. Not sure of the effect of this ability to go through walls on accidental pet leaving. Those happen because you get separated from a pet and with this ability that will perhaps lower a lot the chance this happen, or will rise it if the game consider it doesn't see you and can left you if there is a wall between the char and the GEE.

Ha well too bad that was going well with my two strong pets... but not too strong! :D Not sure that I'll continue with the GEE. I'll perhaps take the opportunity to not use any pet during some time. I'm not used to that but well I'll see.

To lesser the pain I'll tell the final of my last 2 pets. :p After some tough but successful fights in the vault, a first pet get killed in 2 turns because of a monster I underestimate after a check of its stats with a stethoscope. That was a Karmic lizard and my experience is they are tougher to keep alive because they don't hit hard enough. Just before I almost lost the second pet, a cave bear, because of a master mimic, but succeed to save the pet and kill the master mimic with a strong help of the karmic lizard. Further in the vault I met a second master mimic, two long series of paralyzed was enough to get separated from the last pet and and have it killed. My hits was quite low and soon I escaped with teleport. :(

Ha well errors could have been avoided:
- Think to use a blessed necklace of free action I had in pack.
- Get a small opportunity to teleport close to last pet after to have been separated.

Well well, I'm not used to master mimic but in another game I got two pets killed from one.

[Elone]

To further argue about SMC/DH thingy (i enjoy this; too bad if you dont), I went there with a lvl50 Healer and summoned a few pets. I used the stethoscope (healers dont use a turn to use stethoscope) and I was shocked to see that summon's levels ranged from 10 to 100. Why!? Well, SMC was populated with the VERY FIRST enemies that it contained when it was generated when my healer was still lvl1. So now I have no other choice than to believe that their level is also taken into account. If I cleared them all, their levels would average out at about 100-110 and all my summons would rival (and surpass) those of DH.

To sum it up: The summoned/generated pet will assume a level of a random creature that's currently in SMC, plus they will get their levelup based on deaths (uberjackal levelup) plus the random factor.

Warheart, since you already have a summontest-ready character, try it out. Put some efforts into killing off the weaker creatures til all new monsters are about level 90-110. THEN test SoFS without SoD.

P.S. SoFS once gave me a lvl70 lighning vortex. It attacked a goblin by blowing itself up. The game said, "You are horrified by death of your friend!" Oh, am I? I didnt know. Plus I will add that its range was 10, same as my very own ball range. I wonder if it would surpass mine, and become range of 12, if it was level 100 or so.

[Macros]

I went to SMC with a level 50 healer. I've killed all low level monsters, and I've read five blessed scrolls of familiar summoning. Here are the results:

-stone giant, level 13
-stone giant, level 27
-dwarven chaos knight, level 54
-chaos eye, level 57
-cyclops, level 29

So probably your theory doesn't make sense. It seems that in SMC level of summoned pet is random(in certain borders). Still quality of summoned monsters is not even close to those from DH2.

[Doalag]

The lightning lizard tale isn't clear, how can he blow itself? It breath lightning that can bounce but they are immune to lightning. The lightning breath has a very far range, I used some and level up few to 30/35, not sure if the range changed.

For monster generation, it's clear that SMC get monsters with many levels more often that stronger monsters at low level. SMC isn't like that but also don't generate regular level 45 monsters, from far, at least with a character level 6/10. By using a SoFS I got the GEE at level 1, a monster level 48 but that could be just SoFS that behaves differently than monster generation, or I just that I got a lot of luck.

[habanero]

The lightning lizard tale isn't clear, how can he blow itself?

Vortex, not a lizard :p

On the subject, I usually read my SoFS's in DH. I've gotten emperor liches a few times and a titan. To mention the rarer ones.

[Doalag]

:D ... :p .... :rolleyes:

[Doalag]

The greater earth elemental is making my current game quite strange but there are funny part. I got the nice surprise to find a cave bear in mountain (to avoid a swamp square) so now I have something... more pet! With the GEE there is huge rocks raining! The bastard even seems to be able to do curve shots! Those huge rocks are dam cool when mixed with attack orders to the pet. But there are so many huge rocks flying too close to my head, I wonder when I or the Cave Bear will get crush by one! :D

EDIT: Lol just happened right now! The GEE was throwing a rock to a monster and the cave bear "moved" right under the shot, crushed! Honestly I'm not surprised, I noticed other long range pet I tried had a lot of care to not have you under the shot but much less for other pets. The result injuries was only something to manage, never make a pet wild, but with a GEE that's quite dangerous for weaker pets. Now the point is when this will happen to my char. With other pets it was quite rare but often I dodged the shot except very few time. With such a low level character with still low health it's asking to the game a weird death. Now I understand why the game gave me a GEE... just to kill my char!!! :D And I just got the first (and perhaps last) warning. :)

[Elone]

Nice, Doalag! I'll be serious: If (when) you die to that GEE, link to this very post.

Sidenote, my ball spells now have a range of 12... I've never had that before. My Wizards never had more than 8. Am I crazy? I mean, I am; but I mean, on this topic?

[Grey]

Sidenote, my ball spells now have a range of 12... I've never had that before. My Wizards never had more than 8. Am I crazy? I mean, I am; but I mean, on this topic?

Max range you can have is 6, when your willpower is 96 or above. I'm guessing you're counting diameter rather than radius?

By the way, as far as I'm aware all ball explosions in the game, from vortexes to traps to alchemy accidents, all have a range equal to your current ball range (which is purely based on your willpower).

[Nezur]

By the way, as far as I'm aware all ball explosions in the game, from vortexes to traps to alchemy accidents, all have a range equal to your current ball range (which is purely based on your willpower).

Where have you heard about that? I searched with Google and the old ADoM bug tracker but found nothing.

[Macros]

About traps and alchemy it's true(alchemy explosions can be easily exploited, and can be very useful), however I'm not sure about vortexes - that would require some testing, but I think that their explosion range doesn't depend on PC willpower.

[reich]

About traps and alchemy it's true(alchemy explosions can be easily exploited, and can be very useful), however I'm not sure about vortexes - that would require some testing, but I think that their explosion range doesn't depend on PC willpower.

it depends on the level of the vortex, I believe. Those you meet later in the game seem to have bigger blasts (but not as dangerous, due to all the resistances you have)

[Macros]

Yes I also think that it depends on level of vortex. I recall two death of my chars - both was killed by vortixes, and it was in DH and SMC. Those chars were rather low level(something about 13-14), and radius of explosion was pretty big(not mentioning about damage:))

[Doalag]

Nice, Doalag! I'll be serious: If (when) you die to that GEE, link to this very post.

Sure I'll do! :D But honestly my current gameplay has shift a little, I take the GEE but when I can I left it at stairs of the previous level and start alone, then came back get once I finished explore the level or if I flee something ugly. Still continue keep so I deliberately let a chance to the game to kill me that way but I lowered a lot this chance.

[Elone]

Thanks, Grey. It's the diameter/radius issue. It's an interesting idea of vortices having a radius that is in direct proportion with your own Willpower, but like others said, they saw vortices with radius differing from theirs.

I liked to mix water + water to get a fiery explosion. But it's a waste, dont you think? Water is arguably the best potion in the game.

[Macros]

Yes, mixing water with water is a waste, but mixing burb root with alrauna antidote(or other herbs, which usually are very easy to obtain in large amounts) is not too big waste, and it's still working:)

[Grey]

Or mixing potions of carrot juice, invis, cure poison, etc. There's normally plenty of spare herbs and potions to use. Just have to be careful your equipment is protected...