Invisibility

[Kato]

Ugh...I was drinking from a pool and it made me invisible. Short of drinking some more and hoping it makes me NOT invisible....is there any other means to get rid of it? I don't have any potions of visibility either and I really don't want to be invisible. I have the spell to do that if I want to be. Is there any other methods for getting rid of the invisibility intrinsic?

[Ars]

How long ago did that happen? Sometimes pool invisibility wears out after awhile. If it's of the permanent sort, pool drinking's the only way to get permanently rid of it as far as I can tell.

[Kato]

Not too long ago. I tried to drink a little more from the pool and I got sleep resistance...but then the pool dried up. :confused: I guess I need to find me another pool. This character isn't ready to try the place with all the pools and treasure vaults and everything. I might go and sneak through the SMC real quick since the stairs down are close the stairs out. But I would really like to get rid of the invisibility.

[Worst Player... ever]

What's wrong with it? Are you going for an ultra ending of some type? Because the Invisibility intrinsic is awesome!

I've only ever had it once... my PC drank from a pool and got it before he'd even seen his first monster. I'm far from being a great ADOM player, but I proceeded to pound the game senseless with this guy and didn't run into any significant challenges until the ACW. Even then, invisibility was a huge advantage. He died around the mana temple, but that was because of my own careless play. He could easily have been my first win otherwise.

IMO, the only place it hurts you is the arena, and even then the invisibility makes up for the Gladius and Big Punch.

[gut]

> This character isn't ready to try the place with all
> the pools and treasure vaults and everything.

You don't HAVE to be tough enough to clear Darkforge,
in order to enjoy the benefits of Darkforge : )

There is a \ of teleportation in the VDDL, and a (pretty
much) guaranteed source of TP control in the ID (blink
dog corpse). Get some potions of booze from giving
~50 gp to Lawenilothehl beggars, to charge your wand
with. You will need 5 charges for raiding the weapon's and
armor rooms, more if you want to add the pool room.

I advise to be sure you can handle the occasional water
elemental, before beginning your drinking session. Cursing
and dooming can also occur, so maybe it would be wise
to wait a while before going there. It is an option for
removing perma-invisibility, but it can be a dangerous one.

[Kato]

Heh...I am already doomed from one pool :D I found a potion of visibility, but I haven't drank it yet. I didn't want to be invisible because of the xp hit I take. But I slowed myself when I found a room of 20 trolls or something and whooped up on them. Nice exp gains that way...even with being invisible. lol.

I still haven't found any means of teleport yet...and no means of swimming. Which is preventing me from getting to Keethrax. No frost spell either. bleh. ahaha. But that doomed intrinsic hasn't been helping any at all :D

[Kato]

Well...I'm still invisible. A few notes that I have found whilst playing invisible :D

You can't lead the ratling out of the bandit town. He won't follow you when you are invisible.
If you find a floor with a tension room and you use knock on all the doors, you still get "you sense a certain tension" messages even though that room has been cleared ;)
It's neat to walk in to a vault and be able to walk around to see how the creatures are all standing there in what order just waiting for you to make some movement on them :D
Blink dogs...they don't summon help when you fight them while you are invisible. Making the teleport control intrinsic a little harder to find :rolleyes:

On a side note, I finally found a frost bolt spell so I can finally go after Keethrax, but I'm lvl 16 now and I need to do the pyramid first. I think my main issue has been weight. I had to stop carrying the si around cause I couldn't keep up with the weight. And now I am not getting as much money as I would like. Off to bed...I'll tackle the pyramid tomorrow!

[Fullmoon]

Hm, what do you mean with 'xp loss'? I thought xp amount depends only on speed difference between you and monsters. Is there any information about this in GB?

[BlU_sKrEEm]

I'm pretty sure Mummy Wrappings make you visable, it's been a while since I dealt with the problem, though.

[Kato]

Hm, what do you mean with 'xp loss'? I thought xp amount depends only on speed difference between you and monsters. Is there any information about this in GB?
I'm pretty sure that while you are invisible, you don't get the full xp. I thought you lost 1/2 the xp. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable players can confirm it or not.

Confirmed:


Scroll 14 posts backwards; I already explained it. Placing invisibility on yourself will give you half exp, placing invisibility on THEM will always give you double.

Speed is something else. The faster you get, the less exp the monsters give you. Did you notice that in GB (in talents section) it says that the 'speed' talents come with an "exp hit"? Well that's it. But yes, slow yourself down just before striking the killing blow, and since you are half of your speed, you'll get double exp. Wear boots of slow shuffle too! And an armour of sloth. If you can survive to land the final strike, you'll get more exp that you could dream of (approx 10x which gives a million or two from greated non-unique enemies). But goblins and kobolds still only give 100 exp when they're level 100, so dont count on THEM.

[reich]

a (pretty much) guaranteed source of TP control in the ID (blink dog corpse)

how come a blink dog corpse is 'guaranteed' in the Infinite Dungeon?:confused:

[Kato]

Another downfall to being invisible...you can't lead monsters back to an altar to sacrifice them.

[Ars]

^Yes you can, just attack them first. Kicking them while coward makes sure they won't die.

You can't enter the arena while invisible is a minus, but that can be dealt by potions since you don't have to fight there for too long.

And I'm pretty sure Mummy Wrappings don't grant visibility... You see invisible with that, so you see yourself which might've got you mistaken.

[Kato]

ooooo...kick them and they will follow? YES! I can't get ingood with my gods cause I haven't been able to do any live sacrificing and not enough money or herbs for other sacrificing :D But I know where there is an altar...I'll try kicking some monsters!

And yeah...the arena. I need to do that one soon for my quest. I only have two potions of visibility though. Hope they last long enough.

[Grey]

2 is unlikely to be enough. Bless them and wear a necklace of the eye and if possible cast Farsight on yourself. You'll want either bolts spells or missiles to take the enemies out quickly. Don't stop to pick up your money inbetween fights. Another good way to end a fight quickly is to teleport the monster out.

[Macros]

Wearing mummy wrapping grants visibility in NetHack, but not in Adom:). Potion of visibility is only way(besides of drinking pools, but that's risky if you don't have way to deal with curse/doom) to become visible for a short time.

[gut]

> how come a blink dog corpse is 'guaranteed' in the Infinite Dungeon?

Climb the stairs between levels 3 and 4 again,
and again, and again... Eventually, you will get
a blink dog. Name it, make it hostile, and kill alll
of the summoned dogs. If you get no corpse in
the first batch, just wait untill the BD summons
more.

[Silfir]

The ID is pretty much a guaranteed source of anything that can be randomly created. Blink dogs aren't very rare, so you should have a pretty good shot at finding some soon.

I try to avoid the ID now because I've won often enough to be picky :)

[reich]

> how come a blink dog corpse is 'guaranteed' in the Infinite Dungeon?

Climb the stairs between levels 3 and 4 again,
and again, and again... Eventually, you will get
a blink dog. Name it, make it hostile, and kill alll
of the summoned dogs. If you get no corpse in
the first batch, just wait untill the BD summons
more.

oh. But that is CHEATING. :rolleyes:

And boring. I once tried this 'ID scumming' business and never found anything interesting after a hundred climbs or so.

[gut]

> oh. But that is CHEATING.

I think that it is more accurate to say scumming.
Any repeated action for the benefit of your PC,
is usually considered scumming, not cheating.

There are several repetitive actions you can take
to beef up an early game PC. Carrying large rations
can up your St stat to 18, reading a scribbled
scroll a zillion times to increase your literacy
potential to 100, bookcasting in the wilderness,
smithing your gear to amazing levels, PICKPOCKETING,
herbalism for big stats or precrowns, casino gold,
and so on.

I think of cheating as being things that are not
features of the game. Modifying memory offsets,
abusing bugs in the game (piety), those things
were never intended to be used in the game.

Different players have different ideas about what
constitutes fair and fun. I personally will never
smith, pray, pickpocket, or precrown under any
circumstances. Not because of an idea that it might
be 'cheating' to give myself those advantages, but
because it's just not fun for me (anymore). Same
thing for repeatedly buying out the gift shop, that's
MUCH closer to cheating than ID scumming.


> I once tried this 'ID scumming' business and never
> found anything interesting after a hundred climbs or so.

Maybe we are talking about a different ID. The one
I was using had many spellbooks, blink dog corpses,
potions, scrolls, and other assorted niceties : )

Seriously, I have a few game winners in the HoF with
and without ID visits. I do not consider the games with
no ID visit to be more valid than the ones with a visit.
I think that until a player gets a few victories under
their belt, they can fairly consider all game FEATURES
as within bounds.

[reich]

I think that it is more accurate to say scumming.
Any repeated action for the benefit of your PC,
is usually considered scumming, not cheating.

The word 'scumming' sounds way to negative to me. That someone abuses certain game elements is no reason to call him scum after all:)

But you said it's important to 'n'ame the blink dog. If I understand correctly this is to ensure that it summons more of its breed. That IS taking advantage of a glitch and therefore cheating.

[Grey]

The word 'scumming' sounds way to negative to me. That someone abuses certain game elements is no reason to call him scum after all:)

But you said it's important to 'n'ame the blink dog. If I understand correctly this is to ensure that it summons more of its breed. That IS taking advantage of a glitch and therefore cheating.

Scumming is a nicer word than cheating. And it doesn't mean you're scum for doing it, just a modern day verb which generally implies doing a repetitive task for high rewards (a bit like "grinding" in MMOs).

As for blink dogs, there is no bug there. The reason to name one is to identify it as the original. When a blink dog summons other blink dogs those summons start with 0 PP, and so can't summon more. Thus it's best to kill these new dogs off for corpses, and leave the original alive to summon more. Otherwise killing it and leaving a new one alive will mean waiting a long time for it to be able to recover PP (being cursed or doomed helps a little with this though).

[reich]

thanks, that explains much. Although I didn't know summoning costs monsters Power Points, as if they were casting a spell.

[gut]

The other day, I was in the middle of using a
bee hive for punting practice, when a BD blinked
in. I was so excited, I forgot to name him. I
took a few steps, and he summoned. Not only
was the original in the middle of a huge pack
of BD's, it was also surrounded by big yellow bees.
Literally yellow b's, horribly confusing.

I named a few of the most likely candidates, and
waded through the headache. To make matters
worse, I was completely exhausted of PP's, and
couldn't hardly melee the BD's, for fear of the
suicidal bees. It was a mess to b sure, I vow to
never neglect the BD naming again. From now
on, NAME ON SIGHT.

[Elone]

I dont think that monsters use ANY pp to cast ANY spell. It's ALL in RNG, same as herbs, or shop restocking. From my experiences, I found out about this RNG of theirs.

Herbs have a 1d3 or 1d4 chance to weaken when you pick a herb.

Shops restock NOT after a certain time, but with a chance of about 1d200 every turn, if there is any room for more wares.

Summoners have about 1d2 or more likely 1d3 chance to become exhausted after summoning. All summoners seem to have the same chance to become exhausted. A proof that exhausted is a boolean value (a true/false value) is that if you wait long enough, you will see a message saying "The <summoner> seems to have recovered." Likewise, they can recover on next turn, or in 1000 turns; I estimate the dice to be about 10d10. This amount of randomness would not exist if monsters used PP. Monsters do not use PP.

Rotting food works in the same way. It will not rot "in four days", but it's heavily RNG influenced. It could rot on your next turn, or it could last to the end of the game. Food Preservation + cooking can keep a body fresh for a long time. I finished a NE once, while keeping a cooked ACW in my pack all the time. Not only that it didnt rot, but it didnt lose its blessed status.

However, food that lies on ground, while seems to follow the similar RNG randomness, it DOES also take game time into account. Have you ever revisited an old level, and saw a corpse immediately rot as soon as you step in? While whole level remains completely frozen, corpses still rot.

Any comments? I dont know a lot and I learn as I go, and any corrections, additions, critics (and thanks) will help.

P.S. Gut, a friend of mine sent me these few lines.

<i8b4uUnderground> d-_-b
<BonyNoMore> how u make that inverted b?
<BonyNoMore> wait
<BonyNoMore> never mind

I wonder how you felt with so many inverted d's.

[Grey]

Herbs have a 1d3 or 1d4 chance to weaken when you pick a herb.

Sounds about right, though not having Herbalism makes a big difference. I also think, but am not sure, that having higher Herbalism reduces the chance of withering.


Shops restock NOT after a certain time, but with a chance of about 1d200 every turn, if there is any room for more wares. Not so sure on that... Shops have a very high chance of restocking whenever you come back to their level after being away for a long time. Same for cash restoring. No doubt there is some element of randomness, but I'm not so sure it's done on a per turn basis. Seems more likely to me that at each restock a counter is set for 5d40 turns or whatever. Easy way to check - generate a shop, clear it out, save and backup the game, and test numerous times how long it takes to restock.


Summoners have about 1d2 or more likely 1d3 chance to become exhausted after summoning. All summoners seem to have the same chance to become exhausted. A proof that exhausted is a boolean value (a true/false value) is that if you wait long enough, you will see a message saying "The <summoner> seems to have recovered." Likewise, they can recover on next turn, or in 1000 turns; I estimate the dice to be about 10d10. This amount of randomness would not exist if monsters used PP. Monsters do not use PP.Interesting thought... But if so the chance is certainly lower than 1d3. Wererats and jackalweres can summon quite a bit before being exhausted, and I've never seen any of them become exhausted on their first summons. In fact to be honest it always seems to me that they usually summon around the same number of times each encounter. Yuglash and other powerful monsters can summon loads, so there's definitely some difference somewhere between them.

I've also never seen a monster recover in one turn, though I do admit the time taken varies wildly, which implies a random change in status. Again this can be tested by using a backup save with a summoner (harder to set up though).


Rotting food works in the same way. It will not rot "in four days", but it's heavily RNG influenced. It could rot on your next turn, or it could last to the end of the game. Food Preservation + cooking can keep a body fresh for a long time. I finished a NE once, while keeping a cooked ACW in my pack all the time. Not only that it didnt rot, but it didnt lose its blessed status.Cooked food lasts ages, and with food preservation can easily not change status for a huge portion of the game. I imagine if it is all chance per turn dependant then the chance becomes ridiculously low for such food. The fact that food rots immediately upon reentering a level after a long time though implies some element of time-dependance - some turn-counter attached to the food that is only checked when you're on the level. Similarly corpses picked up by a monster and then dropped when it's killed may be seen to rot away as soon as their dropped, because their turn-limit has been reached. Again this can be tested with corpses to see if it always takes the same amount of turns or game time for it to rot. Can't say I'm too fussed on testing it myself though - afterall the overall result for the player is roughly the same.

[gut]

> I dont think that monsters use ANY pp to cast ANY spell

It does seem as though the Archmage never
runs low : )

I have noticed, when dealing with blink dogs,
the original is not the ONLY one that can
summon, just the most likely. I have only
noticed summoned BD's summoning, after two or
three batches have appeared from the original
BD.

The PP suggestion would make sense in this
circumstance, the theory being that with
enough time, some other BD may regen enough
PP to summon. On the other hand, if the
ability to summon does not depend upon PP,
I wonder what it depends on?


> I wonder how you felt with so many inverted d's.

Cross-eyed.

[Elone]

Easy way to check - generate a shop, clear it out, save and backup the game, and test numerous times how long it takes to restock.

Grey, I know what I'm saying. I talk from experience - back from the days when I savescummed a plenty, I tried with backups. And guess what, none is controlled by time, but by RNG. A shop may take 1000 turns to restock. I reload the game from the backup, try again, and with more luck the shop restocks within one 'ws'. And guess what else, same happens with herbs growth. And believe it or not, same is with summoners. And, oh; it's the same way with food. Reload, and wait for RNG to give you a different output.

I admit that various summoners do have different recovery times. I shouldnt have claimed it because I already knew that this statement is wrong. It may be monster dependent, or level dependent.

Gut, summoners are most likely to summon monsters while you are walking towards each other. Get too far, and they wont see you. Get too close and they will melee you rather than summon.

About your guess about summoned monsters summoning, it could simply mean that they are initially created in the 'exhausted' state. Creator probably noticed the problem when he test-fought a blink dog that spawned 10 friends, who all in turn spawned 100, who in turn spawned 1000 more, and he made it so that all summoned blink dogs start out exhausted and unable to summon. While you fight those summoned blink dogs, watch for their "Blink dog seems to have recovered." messages a bit before they summon something.

[reich]

I haven't tested it thoroughly, but I think the summoned dogs are just generated as 'summons' and are uncapable of calling in reiforcements themselves - the same way they cannot be sacrificed.
The game just can tell it by some internal flag or something.

[Grey]

Summons definitely can summon, recih - been observed numerous times. But as Elone says they start out in the exhausted state, so you normally have to wait quite a while before they start summoning. This is why it's best to rely on the original blink dog for summoning and kill off the others. Take too long killing off the others and they'll start summoning themselves.