Getting Bogged Down

[Baranor]

As I play through the game, I generally test my characters by sending them through the SMC and up to the High Mountain Village. Generally by the time that they get to the HMV my characters are about level 10. Rather rapidly I progress through the game sometimes getting into the 20's. In the special cases that I get here, I find that the game just drags for a number of levels. An example of this is my current game. I am at level 23: I have been crowned, gotten the water orb, satisfied the demented ratling, satisfied Gaab'Baay obtained the Ring of the High Kings, descended to the fire wall, defeated MaLaKaI and gotten the Sceptre of Chaos. I have a fair number of corruptions because I have been wandering back and forth to do all this stuff. Any thoughts on where I could go to gain some levels to take on the Tower of Eternal Flames. In my past experience 23 is on the very, very low end of being able to take down the tower.

Does everyone get stuck here or is it just me? Where do you get stuck (if at all)?

[Dougy]

Yes, that is quite an annoying period during the game. I find though, with a nice frost spell you can gain quite a few levels in the fire temple itself. If you've gotten the rune-covered trident yet (with raven star sign) it can really help too.

However, after the fire temple the rest of the game seems to play itself.

[Macros]

In my opinion, if you're not planing on chaos god ending, retrieving sceptre of chaos wasn't good idea. Trip on SIL in that case only gives you corruption, and sceptre itself isn't worth it(after obtaining it, you have to dump it somewhere, otherwise corruptions will eat you). Probably you gained few levels, but it would be better to get them in some other place.

ToEF in my games is one of most important points - if I'm able to retrieve fire orb, I'm on good way to win game. If you're taking on ToEF don't be concerned with your level too much(I've done it even with lvl 19 characters) - more important thing is your equipment and resists. Things that are useful in tower(contains SPOILERS):

spoilers

spoilers

- level 3 fire resistance is essential. Fire immunity is nice, but not necessary
- resist on confusion attacks and high willpower(can be obtained by eating morgia roots and wearing water orb)
- weapon or missiles of dragon slaying are nice
- if you're playing wizard, ice ball will tear down everything you'll meet there(Ancient Chaos Wyrm included), works better with high willpower(greater ball radius)
- phase dagger is nice against fire giants and fire elementals
- fireproof blankets(essential) and ring of ice(very nice)
- potions of confusion or blindness: ultimate weapon against almost everything. Lure ACW to corridor,throw potion at him, and then kill it(might require few potions if you dont have very good melee damage, confusion will go away after some time)
- wand of paralyzation: same as above. Prepare also several potions of booze, or scrolls of charging to recharge it, ACW might shrugs off paralyzation ray sometimes, but after few tries it should work
- wear elemental gauntlets and heal yourself with water orb if you're low on hp

[Grey]

Also important is to get your toughness risen to at least 25 with herbs. Using sickness with herb training can get it up to 30, which will give you plenty of hit points to survive the attacks of elementals and fire giant kings.

[Baranor]

Oh I'm definitely going for the Chaos God ending. I think it's much maligned with the new Avatar endings. The requirement of obtaining the amulet of life-saving is such an arbitrary task to be completed. Sometimes I get it in a few minutes of trying, but others it can take me hours before I decide that it's not worth it.

[Nearsighted]

Oh I'm definitely going for the Chaos God ending.

Ooh, that's a tough one. Enjoy your corruptions. ;)

I find that, as per level, the ToEF is maybe the absolute most difficult portion of the game. The only other orb-bearing area that has ever offered me any trouble would be the ToM. Then again, maybe that's just me.

As far as level boosting is concerned, if you have a pair of 7LB, you might try hunting some wild air elementals and black unicorns. Corruption vs XP, hunting those on the surface has always seemed to work for me(at least until around lv30). As an added bonus, it's a pretty safe alternative to some much more dangerous tasks you could opt for.

[Macros]

Ooh, that's a tough one. Enjoy your corruptions.

As for me, corruption in chaos god ending really wasn't an issue. With all those sources of scrolls of chaos resistance, you shouldn't have problems with corruptions. Bigger problem for me was beating Andor Drakon with Sceptre. Trident of the Red Rooster is powerful weapon, so PC who is wielding it usually doesn't have much problems with beating Andy(at least I didn't had in my ultra endings). Also, PC who's able to complete difficult quest which are required to receive TotRR is usually much stronger than PC who's taking attempt on normal ending or CG.

[Grey]

You don't have to beat Andy with the Sceptre. In fact you can drop the whole Trinity on the ground as soon as you pass through the gate (it's well-advised since they corrupt just from having them in your pack). The best way to kill Andy is with blessed humanoid or demon slaying ammo. This is what I do even for ultras (you need to be wielding the trident when he bites the dust, but hitting him with it is quite unnecessary).

[Macros]

You don't have to beat Andy with the Sceptre. In fact you can drop the whole Trinity on the ground as soon as you pass through the gate (it's well-advised since they corrupt just from having them in your pack).

I know(actually I thought that you have to just deal final blow while wielding scepter, but for some reasons, in that game it didn't really made difference). But if you're playing with spellcaster(and I was playing wizard), beating him in melee(or with ranged weapons) can be difficult. TotRR gives big +to hit and +dmg bonuses. In game I mentioned, I tried to kill him with Serpent's Bite(it has humanoid slaying), but it didn't worked(usually I was missing him). Finally I ended up with flooding him with Acid Ball, but his energy blasts finally killed me(I ran out of healing potions). I wasn't really prepared to fight with him(I thought that Serpent's Bite should kill him), so I made mistake before entering chaos plane.

[ZeroTheBird]

For me the hardest part is getting the trident. thats because i ALWAYS forget what i killed first. (i always thinks that this character will definitively die.)
yay walking down 200+ levels.

[Dougy]

Muggers or beggars are a pretty good choice (IMHO) since they're not generated in dungeons. You can usually kill just one before you get the Courage quest and then kill precisely 20 more later on (if you want). The downside is there will be an alignment change.

[Grey]

Easy way to always remember your first kill:

After spilling your first blood press & (monster recall) and type in the name of the monster you killed. Now at any future point in the game if you want to remember your first kill press & again, and it will show what you last recalled in brackets. If you recall something else for some reason, then remember to recall your first kill afterwards.

As for good first kill, assassins are great, as are bandits, if you want both Courage and the trident. If you only for divinity then beggars and muggers are nice first kills. I often kill beggars first just so I can lower my alignment and get pick pockets from Yergius.

[Shardphoenix]

There`s a good chance to meet a warband of assasins in the wilderness. :)
If you rolled a spellcaster and got a good "shooting" book (NOT magic missile) - half-orc bouncers arecool for an ultra ending

[Baranor]

Holy crap, Grey! That's a great idea for the first monster killed. I have never been the type of person to write notes on the games that I play, but this is super easy and super effective!

[spectre]

That's one good way of remembering the first kill. As an alternative, you can also rename your character, or go for specificaly one thin every time.

Personally, I always try to get a Giant Frog. They can be found in the swamps south from Holeinthewall. It is easy to do with bards (which I play a lot recently), once you get the Brown Bear companion. It is a bit harder and trickier, but doable with others. Later in the game, I can to control my Frog kill counts by calming other frogs with music.

[Baranor]

If I'm not going for an ultra ending, I just make sure I kill something common enough that killing 20 won't be a problem later. I have used the strategy of killing a rare thing if I want to attempt the ultra.

[spectre]

Frogs are good for both, since you can have them on-demand. Just wander the swamps for some time (And be ready to outrun the occasional hydra).

[Epythic]

But wandering in the wildness takes time... you turn purple before you found your 20 frogs.

[Dougy]

That's why beggers and muggers make a good choice. Visit Holeinthewall, kill everything, leave, visit again and they will regenerate. They are not generated elsewhere. You can get exactly 21 kills every time, if you want, when you want (unless you've been crowned). The only downside is the alignment change. But an amulet is easy to get to solve this.

[Macros]

you turn purple before you found your 20 frogs.

I don't think so. If you want to hunt them, you can always make yourself doomed(crown of science for example), which will make frog hunting faster. Also, 7LB helps a lot.

[Grey]

Wilderness never corrupts. A bigger problem is that getting the giant frog encounter with a level 1 PC can be risky. Some PCs can't handle a horde of them anyway, and quite a lot would suffer a quick death to the undead encounter in swamps. Also it means giving up on the puppy straight away - your 3 days would be up straight away.

[Epythic]

Wilderness never corrupts

It doesn't? Oh... well, most of the time I am somewhere else...

[Smite]

I'm all for the Bandit option. I use to kill beggars and muggers but you may as well make it easy for yourself to get Courage down the track. Bandits are not the sort of monster that you will kill hundreds of (IMO) so they are a safe bet.

However, referring back to the original message that started the thread - you've killed MaLaKaI but haven't done the ToEF??????

How is that possible?

Also I have a character at the moment (Trollish Farmer) at Level 23. Just ran into a tension room full of Greater Molochs between Air Temple and Earth Temple. As such, I've gone back to the surface to do other things. Killing MaLaKaI would be high on my things to do.

Any suggestions?

PS. Sorry, some of this could have gone in a separate post

[Silfir]

Wilderness never corrupts. A bigger problem is that getting the giant frog encounter with a level 1 PC can be risky. Some PCs can't handle a horde of them anyway, and quite a lot would suffer a quick death to the undead encounter in swamps. Also it means giving up on the puppy straight away - your 3 days would be up straight away.

It's four days *MAJOR NITPICK*

[Grey]

It's four days *MAJOR NITPICK*

Meh, whatever, I always leave the dumb dog for dead anyway. Way I see it, it's all Darwinism in action...

[Smite]

Way I see it, it's all Darwinism in action...

Darwinism - NICE!!!

Maybe for Jade Thomas could draw up some sort of "Evolution of Man (into ChAoS)" where we start out as a caveman, evolve into a smart and snobbish elf, and then gain 10 eyes, hooves, antennae, etc :)