How do you get good at ADOM?

[boxybrownfromaster]

I've played like 50 games and I haven't been able to live longer than 5 days each time I try. Any advice?

[Grey]

Well, for exploring the game I'd definitely suggest playing as a troll to start off with. Few things can kill them initially. Gnomish elementalists are good too for having excellent offensive magic from the start. What tend to be the main causes of your deaths? Some early game dungeons are actually best avoided, such as the puppy quest and the small cave.

[spectre]

"What tend to be the main causes of your deaths?"

I second that, hard to give any advice if we don't know what kills you (and whole lotsa things do in ADOM)
Other than that, it'd help if we knew how much of a beginner are you, so we won't give useless information such as learn the most important commands, such as the Tactics setting, or don't eat kobolds.

As far as general character suggestions are concerned, I'd suggest giving priests a spin.
They are competent casters and fare reasonably well in melee, most importantly, however, they start with high Detec Item Status, which saves a lot of beginner's frustration coming from cursed items.
They also have healing, which helps in general survivor.

As for the race, feel free to experiment. Contrary to Grey's opinion I would vote against trolls, however, since you can have problems with keeping them well fed, which is another thing new Adomers seem to have trouble with.

I would suggest Dwarves, since they are resilent, and start with Detect Traps skill, which is useful to know which doors are safe to force open. Take these if you have problems with traps.

If starvation is your problem, make good friends with the food shop in Terinyo and keep yourself well stocked on rations. Alternatively, choose a race that knows Food Preservation: Humans, Drakeling work ok.
Hurtlings also know Cooking which helps, but they are rather poor stat-wise.

Another option to try is an archer. Choose human or elven, so that you have plenty of ammo to work with.
You can stay out of harms way using missles.

Some more general advice:
(o)Always stay on your toes, as you already know you can get killed a lot in adom. If you start feeling an urge to get cocky and rush monsters headlong, tapping the movement keys frantically, it's probably time to take a break and save.
(o)Learn from your deaths, if you die because of traps, be sure to have detect traps skill, if a certain monster keeps killing you, avoid them. If you get killed in a certain place a lot, avoid it for the time being.
Not all quests were meant to be completed, and not all monsters were meant to be defeated (straight away). Discretion is the better part of valor.

[gut]

> How do you get good at ADOM?

By learning from mistakes. I'm still learning with just about
every game I play, and I've been playing for a loooooooong
time : ) The guidebook and save scumming will shorten the
learning process, but at a price. You might enjoy the game
more, by discovering the secrets in the non-spoil fashion.

In short, here are a few of the things that can increase
your servival rate:

Learn what monsters present what problems, like ghuls
stun, mimics paralyze, ochre jellies corrode weapons,
stone golems hit hard, and so on. Once you have the
troublesome monsters memorized, you can prepare well
for them. This probably is the best thing you can do to
improve your survival chances.

Use the ID, that's what it's there for! After you become
experienced, then you can add the restriction of no
ID scumming, if you like. Again, this is an extremely
powerful feature of the game, and if you're not using
it, you are missing out.

Learn the uses of herbs. This is an extremely powerful
feature of the game. Beating the game without herb
use is a challenge, even for experienced players. If you
are not using herbs, you are handicapping yourself
horribly.

Learn to evaluate how powerful your PC really is. There
are some parts of the game that shouldn't be taken on
if you are not powerful enough. Your evaluations will
change as you become more experienced. At first, err
on the side of caution, only later will you take on the
ToEF with 99 HP's.

Examples: I would reccomend not tangling with the mad
carpenter unless your PV is at least 6. Don't do the
puppy cave without the healing skill. Don't attack
Hotzenplotz unless you have bolt spells, or respectable
missile skills. The more you learn to evaluate how powerful
your PC needs to be, before taking on specific challenges,
the more likely you are to live through them.

Learn how to use altars. If you find an early game altar,
it can be a trememdous advantage, but only if you
know how to use it. It can help you to identify your
items, and yield holy water to improve your items. If
you spend enough time saccing things (monsters), it
can even yield early game artifacts.

Learn the effects of eating corpses. Eating specific
corpses can increase stats, decrease stats, petrify,
confuse, or just outright kill you.

By learning these things over time (or by spoiling
methods), you will get farther in the game.

[Nezur]

I've played like 50 games and I haven't been able to live longer than 5 days each time I try. Any advice?

It often pays to spend time leveling on the first levels of the ID which is the southeasternmost cave on the map.

EDIT: like gut mentioned.

[Ter13]

I honestly don't care for even going near the two recommended dungeons when you first start a character. I tend to immediately rush to save the puppy, and kill Kranach. The infinite dungeon has a nasty habit of spawning dark elf priestesses, which have the record for killing my characters, and the 7-level dungeon northwest of terinyo has far too high of a monster population rate to be very survivable by a new player.

Remember a few things that will save you:

Melee is nice, but being in close range gives you less room to run away.

Some spells rebound off of things, don't zap wands carelessly, or you will pay the price.

Ochre jellies corrode your weapons. Don't use your main weapon on them. Also, don't kick them period. It eats your boots, and hurts you if you are barefoot.

Early food sources aren't always rations. Try eating bats, giant rats, lizards, and gnomes. NEVER EAT KOBOLDS!

If you aren't satiated at all times, you are probably not eating corpses you should be.

Try taming some animals. They often make great allies, or can hold back your enemy just long enough for you to get away.

Don't overburden yourself, you will regret it when you try to escape a fight you cannot win. Trust me, you will find another spellbook later.

Don't pick up everything. If you see a suit of full plate on the ground, think about wether or not you need it. If you are a caster type, you shouldn't even be having to think about it.

Gold is just shy of useless, and you will accumulate more than enough of it. Don't risk your life for loot so you can make money.

While it may seem like a good idea to kick in the locked door, you will end up regretting it eventually. Locked doors often carry traps that shatter your gear.

Enemies that can stun, or paralyze you should be noted, and dealt with long before they can get in melee range. I don't care if you have to throw money at them to kill them, just don't let them touch you.

If it's purple, 90% of the time, it will try to corrupt you. Don't let it. Having a spine has disadvantages, but overall, not being a puddle of chaos more than makes up for them.

When fighting groups of summoned foes, it is all too easy to get overwhelmed. Kill the caster ASAP.

Some enemies can disarm you. Take note of them, and don't let them.

I've got a lot more, but I'm running through literally years of dead characters, and reading memorial files. Trust me, a lot of my characters have died because of these reasons.

The most irritating way I've ever died, was due to ignoring a disarming enemy while ignoring three summoners after having my armor eaten away by corrosive monsters, all because I did not take care of any of the three encounters using ranged combat, and after I had killed the hundreds of summoned monsters, I was careless and stepped on a trap, which did just enough damage to kill me. Had I followed that list up there, I would have survived, and that character probably would have won (My best character ever, near perfect stats, artifact weapons and armor).

Anyway, good hunting!

[gut]

> The infinite dungeon has a nasty habit of
> spawning dark elf priestesses

It's pretty easy to control the danger level
in the ID. If you don't want to fight tough
monsters, just don't go too deep. As long as
you stay near a staircase, escape is easy.

> Try eating bats, giant rats, lizards, and gnomes

gnomes? : D

> Gold is just shy of useless,

Can't agree with that. You can use gold
in the early game to buy large rations,
and simply 'w5' your St stat to 18. You
can also pick up a few points of PV at
the black market. For the mid-game, there
is piety, Waldenbrooks and garth training.
In the late game, that is where gold is
useless.

> Locked doors often carry traps that shatter your gear.

I mainly do kick down doors. I just drop
my inventory beforehand with the command
':d+'. You can leave most of your worn
items on, just remove the really valuable
stuff.

> I don't care if you have to throw money at them
> to kill them, just don't let them touch you.

If memory serves, I think merchants are
the only class that can inflict damage
with thrown coins.

[spectre]

^I think Ter 13 meant goblins, not gnomes (-:

[> Gold is just shy of useless,
Can't agree with that.]

Ditto. You'll get plenty of it in late game, but it is scarce in the beginning, and there are definitely things to spend it on. Adding to gut's list: there is also the Thieves guild training for non-Lawfuls, and with some luck you should generate a few shops along your way through the caves. There is also one guaranteed in the High Mountain Village, and, for me, this one often had an artifact on display.

[If memory serves, I think merchants are
the only class that can inflict damage
with thrown coins.]

Yep, for other classes the -foo will simply grab and pocket the coin.

As for the Kobold Corpses, the sickness they induce is expolitable as well, but this is by no means a beginner's tactics. It lowers your stats, making them easier to increase with herbs and training, also successfully sweating through the fever trains toughness, according to the improved GB at least.

[Some enemies can disarm you. Take note of them, and don't let them.]
I think this one needs clarification, you need high Dex and weapon skill to prevent this. Early on, there's actually little you can do, except keep them at a distance.

[Laukku]

Learn what monsters present what problems, like ghuls stun

Enemies that can stun, or paralyze you should be noted, and dealt with long before they can get in melee range. I don't care if you have to throw money at them to kill them, just don't let them touch you.

Actually, ghuls paralyse you. AFAIK no monster has stunning as a special attack. It is just a random chance from any monster (but maybe higher with those that deal high damage.)

[gut]

> AFAIK no monster has stunning as a special attack

That's funny, because up until recently, I didn't
know that ghuls could paralyze a PC that wasn't
doomed. I suspect that is something that has
changed a bit since ADOM 1.0.0.

Ghuls do have a stunning attack. That's why
Thrundarr gives the ring of stun resistance,
when he opens up the Griffyard quest. The ring
is for the ghuls, the holy water is for the
grave, and the bone is for... well I have no
idea WHAT the bone is for : )

[Silfir]

I've never ever had a ghul stun me, and I've only played ADOM 1.1.1, so I guess I have the advantage of clear memories on that. I guess the stunning has been replaced with the paralyzing.

PS: Okay, I should be honest, the first version of ADOM I've played had no talents, so that probably was 1.0.0... I'm still positive that ghuls do not have stunning attacks anymore, though, beyond the ability of every monster to stun you by taking away nearly all your HPs.

[Grey]

Ghuls will never paralyze you if you have decent DV. I'm fairly sure they've paralyzed in all versions... Certainly their stunning is no different from any other monster's.

[spectre]

The stunning effect may be based on the % of your total health that the blow knocked off.

Yep, I remember being paralyzed by ghouls in 1.1.1, and all other versions I played for that matter.
It also fits the d&d canon that ghouls paralyze (and much of adom bestiary is based on this)

[BowenTheKotoc]

The bone is for eating, or healing your minions if you're a necromancer. Maybe you can damage skeletons and then tame them by giving them the bone? Or would that count towards the proof of kindness Jharod needs to teach you about healing? Getting off track, I know, ignore me, I'm mostly talking out loud to myself.

[boxybrownfromaster]

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread but it would help if you could answer these questions.

How do you eat herbs and how can you tell what they do?

What does an altar look like?

How do you tame animals?

and, What exactly is the Puppy Quest?

Any response to these questions is helpful. Thanks

[spectre]

[How do you eat herbs and how can you tell what they do?]
Just like all regular food, press 'e' and select your meal. However, some herbs have to be 'U'sed for a desired effect.
Some of the herb names describe their function quite well, like stomafillia, some do not.
The herbs often come in paris, which have opposite efects, and some of this depends on their blessed/cursed status:

stomafillia/stomaceptia - satiates/hungers
curaria mancox/devil's rose - cures/induces disease
alraunia antidote/demon daisy - cures/causes poison
pepper petal/burb root - heals/deals damage
morgia root - trains To & Wi
spenseweed - heals a bit.
moss of mareilon - trains Dex.

[What does an altar look like?]
It's an underscore ' _ ', that comes in white, grey and black, for different alignments.

[How do you tame animals?]
Use sure way is to play an instrument succesfully enough times. (You need an instrument and music skill) It also works on frogs and bugs.
You can also feed them (use common sense here, dogs like bones, cats like fish and rats) but I think that takes a bit too long, the gain insignificant, and the materials are not always at hand.

[and, What exactly is the Puppy Quest?]
It's a quest you receive from the tiny girl in Terinyo (a 't' in slightly different shade of red than the other kids, keep your eyes peeled) which unlocks a new dungeon to the north, where you can search for her missing dog.

[Grey]

Herbs are sometimes founds in the dungeon, and grow according to certain patterns. Not all of them are beneficial, and it's not wise to play around with them unless you know what you're doing. I'd suggest reading section 0.13.6 of the Guidebook (http://www.andywlms.com/adom/adomgb-toc.html) to get an idea of how to manage herbs should you find any.

An altar is an underscore '_' - it will be either white, grey or black. These correspond to the different alignments (lawful, neutral or chaotic). If there's an altar on a level you'll normally get the message "You sense a pious aura" at some point. Saccing on the wrong altar can lead to some very harmful side-effects. However saccing to a god of the same alignment as you can lead to some good stuff. The most important thing is that building up piety will let you pray more often (and prayers can get you out of a lot of sticky situations). You can sac gold and items, but the beset thing is live sacs - lure a monster onto an altar and press 'O'. Don't lure neutral animals onto grey altars though, and don't ever step on a black altar when a monster is nearby (they can sac you).

Altars can also be used to identify if an item is blessed, cursed or uncursed - just drop the items on the altar (you need to be the same alignment and have decent piety though). Similarly gods can bless any water you drop on an altar.

Animals can mostly only be tamed by someone with the music skill and a musical instrument. Put the instrument in the tool slot and press 'u' to play it.

The puppy quest is given by the tiny girl in Terinyo. After you get the quest a cave becomes available next to the starting road. It's fairly dangerous, with some tough-hided giant ants on the second level, a huge cavern with lots of monsters on the fifth level, and a vault filled with loads of creatures on the last level (where you find the puppy). You have to get to the bottom within 3 days for the puppy to be alive. A lot of people skip the quest because it's not worth dying over.

[boxybrownfromaster]

thank you grey and spectre

[Sradac]

I've played like 50 games and I haven't been able to live longer than 5 days each time I try. Any advice?


I play 50 games a week sometimes lol =)

Not as much about getting "Good" as its not really a skill based game like twitchy FPS games as much as learning the game mechanics and learning more about it, first time you walk on an ice bridge with over 1000s is a learning experience!

[Sami]

I play 50 games a week sometimes lol =)

Not as much about getting "Good" as its not really a skill based game like twitchy FPS games as much as learning the game mechanics and learning more about it, first time you walk on an ice bridge with over 1000s is a learning experience!

And I have won about 25 games... And the amount of dead characters? No-one knows that, I think it can be counted in tens of thousands. :P

Try to learn a bit from every death: in next games you hopefully can avoid making the same mistake you have already done in some other game. Also save scumming may help to learn some strategies or how to survive from certain situations.

[Grey]

2000s is the limit for walking over ice actually. It's most horrible to learn this in a certain very spoily location...

[Ter13]

Ooooh... You got that far and died by falling through ice? That's crap.

[Grey]

Well I first came across it with a save-scummed character actually (many lunar eclipses ago), and he was wearing an AoLS and had enough HP to survive a round or two of swimming through the fish, so it wasn't that bad. Got a bit of a shock though, I must admit.

[Baranor]

My first experience there was back when it was insta-death! Amazingly enough TB has lessened the effects of the place!

[warheart]

When I got there for the first time I remember my char was a troll (don't remember the profession) who had like 1k hp. I didn't know anything about the place, was a noob, and had no means of bridge building (no skill and didn't know about cold spells/wands). So I just tried to swim. I actually managed to survive a couple of turns :)

[Smite]

You can use gold
in the early game to buy large rations,
and simply 'w5' your St stat to 18.

I'm sure I already know what this means but haven't heard it expressed this way. Could someone elaborate for the sake of my sanity? :eek:

[Smite]

D'oh just figured it out

Waiting on the spot while Burdened, Strained, Strained! - will St go up with any of these three burden levels?

Is one better/worse than the others?

[Silfir]

I don't think being burdened will train strength much, unless you're below 10 or something. Strained will get you quite high, and Strained! will get you to 18 in any case (I think you can get it higher than that even, but a couple of players that are far more experienced with extreme stat-training tactics disagree with me...).

However, the higher levels of burdening also abuse your dexterity, with Strained! being the worst. Not at the same rate at which you will get strength increases, thankfully, so I'd just get some levels under my belt, get Strained!, and have some fun in the easier dungeons. Unless you really WANT to just stand around in Terinyo like an idiot for several days of game time.

[gut]

Regarding strength training.

Smite:
> Is one better/worse than the others?

To the best of my knowledge, the 'strained!' status trains
strength the fastest. If memory serves, 'burdened' can
get you to St 12, 'strained' gets you to St 15 and 'strained!'
gets you to 18. I have once increased my St potential to
19 with the 'strained!' status, but could not increase the
stat it's self to 19. I think that was fluke though, as I have
not seen it twice.

Silfir:
> higher levels of burdening also abuse your dexterity,

I haven't noticed that. I'm pretty sure that your safe from
De abuse as you avoid being 'overburdened!'. That status
can screw you up, even in just a few turns. The St stat
can be increased to (I think) 20, using the 'overburdened!'
status, but you will lose MANY points of De along the way,
so it's not really worth it.

[Silfir]

I know my high elven archer victor got his dex drained by strained or strained! so much over the course of the game, he ended up with "His dexterity score was modified by -1". It's not a fast effect - easily remedied with moss of mareilon - but I'm sure it's there.

[Nezur]

I know my high elven archer victor got his dex drained by strained or strained! so much over the course of the game, he ended up with "His dexterity score was modified by -1". It's not a fast effect - easily remedied with moss of mareilon - but I'm sure it's there.

I've noticed my Dex decreasing while being "Strained!" so I think that the status abuses the stat.

[gut]

That just can't be. I have started soooooo many games,
by killing Hotz and Kranach for gold, and immediately
buying large rations for strength training. It takes a
long time to 'strain!' your way to St 18, if one starts as
a gray elf. That means thousands and thousands of
game turns, and probably well over a week of game
time passes.

I have never lost a single point of De this way. If you
found yourself losing De points, it must have been
from something else.

[Grey]

Remember that stats are abused more when they're higher. It's generally safe to be Strained! early on, but not managing your inventory better in the late game can easily lead to a loss of Dex.

[gut]

In desperation, I even looked at the 'improved guidebook'.
The 'strained!' status is not listed as a method of abusing
the De stat.

[Nezur]

Hmm, maybe not then. I tested it a little with 22 Dex by waiting for 3800 turns Strained! and my Dex value didn't change. Overburdened! however did abuse Dex while Str kept simultaneously increasing. I had 4 Str initially.

[Silfir]

Who knows? Might be an effect tied to higher levels. I think it's in the guidebook as well, somewhere.