PDA

View Full Version : Animated Forest = Scumming?



idoru
06-26-2008, 05:11 AM
While reading the endless debate on whether or not Treasure Hunter is a worthwhile talent, I noticed that of all the scummy ways to generate a lot of items, using the banshee in the Animated Forest was not mentioned. I do this with quite a lot of my characters (those that make it that far, anyway), and was curious if this is thought of as scumming for items.

Elone
06-26-2008, 10:33 AM
Scumming or not, dont worry about it, cuz it's not a bad thing. Many people tag some methods as 'near-cheating' and they call 'scummers' inexperienced cheaters. Savescumming is the only bad form of scumming, and that's because it takes advantage of software from OUTSIDE of the game itself.

What I'm saying is, just because scumming can break a game, doesnt mean that it's a bad taboo and/or a shame. Stairhopping is not a CHEATING anymore; since we have this 1.1.1 version of ADOM which wont be updated anymore, it has become a FEATURE. Same as with other forms of 'oh so evil' scumming.

Similarly to savescumming, someone will scum gremlins/sheep/stairs, someone wont. Dont you DARE to start an endless flaming debate topic here (similar to the treasure hunter topic back there), or I will hunt you all down with the artefact 256-bladed random number generator (borrowed from william tanksley) and feast on your souls. I know where you live.

P.S. This is, in fact, a very interesting idea that I never tried! Scumming or not, I'll have a plenty of fun in it, and no one will stop me. You Screaming Sheep, here I come!

Silfir
06-26-2008, 11:27 AM
The gains are enormous and potentially infinite, and the risk is low (unless you're slower than a level 50 banshee!). I think it qualifies as a scumming method.

And of course, Elone is right - Whether you want to use scumming methods or not is entirely up to you. Only savescumming disqualifies you from the Hall of Fame, and personally I think piety overflow should also be considered unlawful, but opinions differ.

I'll shut up now before I am brutally murdered...

Subconscious
06-26-2008, 02:40 PM
Funny thing about the banshee...
She levels up ridiculously fast in the forest so she will pass the lvl 50 easily - IIRC I have had banshee with lvl 70 or more.
At the same time you get lots of loot you have one "easily" killable enemy that gives you a HUGE exp. boost!!!

Banshee cannot crush doors - Lock her into corner or some similar place and Acid ball her to death! :p
Huh? Scumming? Naaaaaaah...

Im frequent scummer of starsigns and I dont think it's bad thing. It is just speeding up things, you wouldnt start playing a melee char with magic bonuses or so... Or you would. The starsign doesnt affect that much on gameplay so its not that 'heavy'.

Silfir
06-26-2008, 02:47 PM
I've had a Salamander-born Barbarian winner once... Starsigns usually help me in my decision of what kind of character to play. "Oh, I got Sword! I guess it's a melee character for me today"

Nezur
06-26-2008, 03:08 PM
As far as I am concerned I do "scum" but I do not abuse obvious bugs or use grossly overpowered tactics that make the rest of the game a cakewalk.

Challenge games (perhaps the Archmage too) and one-shot try-outs are an exception. The above goes for my normal games.

Things I consider bugs or grossly overpowered:


Piety overflow
Wish engines
Dragon gold doubling

Grey
06-26-2008, 04:22 PM
Banshee/forest is scumming, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Personally I don't touch it, partly because it's scummy, partly because it's boring, and partly because I'm shit-scared I'll screw it up and have my char slaughtered.

Only scummy tactics I tend to use in normal games are sickness abuse with herbs and pool-sipping for AoLS. Only things I see as being outright wrong to use are savescumming, piety abuse and ring-dipping wish engine (at least in terms of having a legitimate game - fine if you want to explore). I don't say Archmage wish engine because that involves such insane effort that if you do it you deserve it, and the top scores from people who've used Archmagery are quite justified. Dragon gold doubling I consider okayish to use as an alternative to the casino in the late game - obviously early game it can be abused quite horribly.

Nezur
06-26-2008, 05:18 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot savescumming. I once intended to savescum a game and it just started to feel boring. I haven't savescummed since unless I'm testing features.

Soirana
06-26-2008, 06:52 PM
next you will probably declare monster killing as scummy tactics. It gives you xp, items, gold and usually brings little risk.

p.s. and it is obviously not so needed for finishing game.

Kato
06-26-2008, 08:30 PM
Argh...ok. So this thread has me confused on something...I thought I knew all the "scummy" methods, but I guess I am wrong. I have yet to use any of the so-called "scumming" methods, but I am always interested in them and their potential.

What is piety abuse and how is it scummy?
Pool-sipping for AoLS is considered scumming? uumm...how is pool-sipping scummy at all? It's not like you are save scumming after every sip, are you?
What is the archmage wish engine?

All the others I know what they are and how they are done...but these have been coming up recently and they are new to me.

Grey
06-26-2008, 08:50 PM
Piety abuse: Keep praying to piss off your god till the piety integer loops round and you get positive 2 billion piety - allows easy precrowns and practically unlimited prayers. Exploiting a bug obviously. Risky to set up if you don't know how to do it properly.

Archmage wish engine: Get enough HP&PP to bookcast Wish (certain talents help, amongst other things). Wish infinitely for everything you desire. Again very hard to set up (getting enough pp to cast Wish even when your Ma is drained to zero ain't easy) and generally you can't do it till you're already good enough to win, or have already won. Also very boring to go through. However you can use it to max out all stats, skills, etc - ie make the perfect char with the highest possible score.

Silfir
06-26-2008, 08:55 PM
Stats can't be drained to zero.

(THE NITPICKER STRIKES AGAIN)

Grey
06-26-2008, 09:03 PM
There are several definitions of "zero" beyond "0" :P (yeah, poor excuse, but I can try...)

gut
06-26-2008, 11:05 PM
I think the only things that should disqualify one from the HoF, are things
that happen outside the game, such as save-scumming, and memory editing.
All the other things are fine to me, as long as they are mentioned. Piety
scum victories are even OK, as long as it is mentioned in the flg. That way
those of us who don't like it, can just mentally block out those flg's : )

I think banshee use is scumming, but it is also more fun than some other
scumming methods. I'd rather kill trees than smith or pick pockets. My
definition of 'scum' is not anything negative, to me it just means 'repetitive
process'. Even reading a silly ratling scroll 100 times is scummy by my
definition, so it's not bad, just repetititititive.

I once had visions of luring the banshee all the way to D:48. Using her all
along the way, to kill every monster that got near me. She has no effect on
anything that isn't alive though, so that left many monsters, including grues.
She has no effect on the Orb guardians. No effect on the EG. No effect on
the shopkeeper in the casino. I didn't let her near the CL to find out, as
kitty karma was fine. She did a fine job with the vaults though : ) I didn't
get her all the way to D:48, boredom set in and I killed her.

Silfir
06-26-2008, 11:09 PM
Piety overflow is the closest thing the game has to an outright cheat. It's within the program code, but not the game.

Nezur
06-26-2008, 11:20 PM
Even reading a silly ratling scroll 100 times is scummy by my
definition, so it's not bad, just repetititititive.

It does not feel that tedious if you have ADoM Sage and a macro for it. I trained my Le by reading the ratling scroll 500-2000 times in my current game while waiting for Garth training increases.

Soirana
06-27-2008, 04:01 AM
actually macros are outside game factor...

honestly thing i do not like is copypasting... but well again keeping something on keyboard while gambling in casino is not much different.