spectre
03-17-2008, 09:43 PM
I am curious about your opinions on this one.
Are you satisfied with how it's handled in ADOM? And if not, how would you improve upon it, then?
Personally, I think whatever alignment system is used, it will always sound artificial and confining, so I think we need to set aside the 'playing a role' standpoint, and simply consider (if we were to change anything, of course, and I am the kind of guy that would modify and house-rule to death just about anything that won't run up a tree) what gives us more fun, ie. stuff to toy around it.
As far as ADOM was concerned, the L+ to C- axis was simplistic, but did suffice given the character of the game (and its cosmology as well), its main conflict (forces of good vs. forces of chaos, with neutrality as the middle ground).
However, even within this framework, it had problems. It equated chaotics with followers of chaos, which would'have been ok, if it didn't put demons, thieves and WMoPCs into the same basket. In the end, it was all put to the extreme, if you were good, you had to do goody stuff. If you were bad, you sneer at children, wear black, and get to grow tentacles in the end. If you were neutral, you jusy did a little bit of either.
Well, it's a game, dammit, and I am very fine with that. There is a beauty to be had in simplicity. But this is JADE, and JADE makes me want to think big.
So now, much blabber and no suggestions. So there it goes:
I would very much like the alignment in JADE to be more fixed. Once you are L, you stay that way. Period. It will take lots of work to change it to Neutral flavor, and turning Chaotic should be a lifetime goal. No switching back and forth.
Simple way of doing this would be to vastly expand the number of 'stones' needed to change.
I also think that the semi-alignments, like the LN and CN parts of the alignment axis should come to life a bit more. In ADOM these idicated that you were changing your morals, and rarely lasted for long. Perhaps in JADE these cold be lifestyles of their own?
An alternative I'd considered for some time was the notorious D&D double axis Good-Evil, Law-Chaos alignment. It seems logical, since ADOM doesn't care to hide its D&D heritage to much, o that's just adding to the pool. It also allows for some more complexity in the characters, cosmology, and a lot more.
I know there's a lot of people out there who despise D&D alignment system, and rightfully so. But I am of the opinion, that the system is not flawed, it is simply hard to do well. (Of all the examples, only Planescape: Torment comes to mind). It's not like it is rocket science, though. One simply needs to keep in mind that the Good-Evil dichotomy has been overdone ad nauseam. The important thing is, the Law-Chaos axis is NOT the same thing (although it's way to ofen confused), and is ripe with fresh ideas for characters, quests, viewpoints.
The more I think of it, the more it seems that such a change would be good. Think about it, ADOM already has the Lawful Neutral, Neutral Evil, only it represents them as LN and N-, merely short-lived transition steps, not alignments of their own. (Also, due to that Law = Good and Chaos = Evil, there's no such thing as Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil in the ADOM system)
Yeah, this also another flaw out there, Law vs. Chaos conflicts in ADOM are tentamount to Good vs. Evil. I see some squandered potential right there.
Robin Hood in ADOM has a problem here. He's not Lawful, cause he breaks the law actively, he's not Chaotic, since he helps the poor. That makes him a true N=, equating him with a druid-like guy. I think this misses something.
Are you satisfied with how it's handled in ADOM? And if not, how would you improve upon it, then?
Personally, I think whatever alignment system is used, it will always sound artificial and confining, so I think we need to set aside the 'playing a role' standpoint, and simply consider (if we were to change anything, of course, and I am the kind of guy that would modify and house-rule to death just about anything that won't run up a tree) what gives us more fun, ie. stuff to toy around it.
As far as ADOM was concerned, the L+ to C- axis was simplistic, but did suffice given the character of the game (and its cosmology as well), its main conflict (forces of good vs. forces of chaos, with neutrality as the middle ground).
However, even within this framework, it had problems. It equated chaotics with followers of chaos, which would'have been ok, if it didn't put demons, thieves and WMoPCs into the same basket. In the end, it was all put to the extreme, if you were good, you had to do goody stuff. If you were bad, you sneer at children, wear black, and get to grow tentacles in the end. If you were neutral, you jusy did a little bit of either.
Well, it's a game, dammit, and I am very fine with that. There is a beauty to be had in simplicity. But this is JADE, and JADE makes me want to think big.
So now, much blabber and no suggestions. So there it goes:
I would very much like the alignment in JADE to be more fixed. Once you are L, you stay that way. Period. It will take lots of work to change it to Neutral flavor, and turning Chaotic should be a lifetime goal. No switching back and forth.
Simple way of doing this would be to vastly expand the number of 'stones' needed to change.
I also think that the semi-alignments, like the LN and CN parts of the alignment axis should come to life a bit more. In ADOM these idicated that you were changing your morals, and rarely lasted for long. Perhaps in JADE these cold be lifestyles of their own?
An alternative I'd considered for some time was the notorious D&D double axis Good-Evil, Law-Chaos alignment. It seems logical, since ADOM doesn't care to hide its D&D heritage to much, o that's just adding to the pool. It also allows for some more complexity in the characters, cosmology, and a lot more.
I know there's a lot of people out there who despise D&D alignment system, and rightfully so. But I am of the opinion, that the system is not flawed, it is simply hard to do well. (Of all the examples, only Planescape: Torment comes to mind). It's not like it is rocket science, though. One simply needs to keep in mind that the Good-Evil dichotomy has been overdone ad nauseam. The important thing is, the Law-Chaos axis is NOT the same thing (although it's way to ofen confused), and is ripe with fresh ideas for characters, quests, viewpoints.
The more I think of it, the more it seems that such a change would be good. Think about it, ADOM already has the Lawful Neutral, Neutral Evil, only it represents them as LN and N-, merely short-lived transition steps, not alignments of their own. (Also, due to that Law = Good and Chaos = Evil, there's no such thing as Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil in the ADOM system)
Yeah, this also another flaw out there, Law vs. Chaos conflicts in ADOM are tentamount to Good vs. Evil. I see some squandered potential right there.
Robin Hood in ADOM has a problem here. He's not Lawful, cause he breaks the law actively, he's not Chaotic, since he helps the poor. That makes him a true N=, equating him with a druid-like guy. I think this misses something.