When to poolsip and when not to

[speciesxx]

Wondering when people do actually poolsip, and when not :). Early in the game i never due it, cause it is simply to dangerous. i only tend to do it after i'm done with all the dwarven quests. Just to get that permanent invisibility. And maybe a wish.

Currently my DE archer is level 20 and almost ready for the ToEF. Maybe i should sip for a wish or perma invisibility. But it is risky as well to get doomed?
(i'm crowned atm, L+ with the far slayer Xbow)

When do you people sip?
When do you people not sip?
What do you sip for? :).

[Silfir]

I do it for one AoLS wish. Nothing else.

[gut]

I have to have:
1. A blink dog corpse stashed in a shop or an ammy of teleport control.
2. Piety at 'very close' for easy doom removal.
3. The patience to remove the inevitable 5 doomings I will get, one by one.

[Sadface]

I poolsip when I have an amulet or ring of teleport control, or
are playing a mindcrafter...or when I don't give two hoots about
the character.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

I do it when one of these things is true:

1. It's the very early game, for example UD:1 or UD:2 (I start the game in SMC+UD). In that case I won't lose much of my time if I get doomed.
2. I don't care much about my character.
3. I really need an AoLS (for example, if the dwarven mystic hasn't given me SoCR's and I don't feel like going to the Rift).
4. I have what gut says for teleport control recovery and dooming removal, and while I do care about my character, it's not really great and it could be improved.

[moomoo]

I usually don't poolsip..

Unless I really don't care what happens to that character (this ends up in shift-Q mostly anyway).
If I can't find an aols for ultra I try ocg or normal wins much rather than sip and get mighty annoyed.
I kind of got rid of the sipping habbit when killing an orc beastie to old age while trying desperately getting an aols.

[pblack]

After the arena, i normally poolsip if i have tp control guaranteed (blinkie corpse on shop, tcrtl item). Not so much for wishes, but for permainvisibility and/or teleportitis.

[JellySlayer]

I have to have:
1. A blink dog corpse stashed in a shop or an ammy of teleport control.
2. Piety at 'very close' for easy doom removal.
3. The patience to remove the inevitable 5 doomings I will get, one by one.

These are pretty much the criteria I use as well, plus one more:

4. I am in a condition where I can risk gaining many years of unnatural aging. If I'm playing a troll or orc, I usually avoid poolsipping unless I'm really desperate.

[gut]

>in a condition where I can risk gaining many years of unnatural aging.

Yep, forgot that one. I've actually killed a troll in the past by
thinking "Surely it can't happen again."

[DumbleDoor]

When in any of the starting dungeons, or have the ability to remove cursing+dooming and tele control.

[fazisi]

When I look at the pink pool and think it probably is some sort of koolaid.
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[Pumpernickel]

If i hit a very early pool with a very low-level character and just feel irresponsible. If something bad happens, i'll usually just keep sipping, on the basis that you can't get doomeder than doomed. Otherwise, i generally stop after three sips.

In all other cases, i don't. I think in my ~200 more-or-less serious games under 1.1.1, less than twenty chars have poolsipped at all, and yes, that includes several a-lot-less-than-serious games.

[DumbleDoor]

Why 3? The chances of anything good/bad happening are the same after 3 than they are after 0 (unless you get some instrincts).

[fazisi]

Because it actually isn't. When you first start poolsipping at early levels with no or few instrincts, the chances of something good is a far greater percentage than something bad. The more instrincts you have, the higher chance of something bad will happen. Also, the more you sip, the higher chance you'll get at least something bad. Probability sucks nuts especially when being cursed/doom usually outweighs having cold resistance and a point of Pe.

I normally pass pools by and think "maybe later". If it's early in the game and I pretend I can endure non-controlled teleportitis and I've seen an altar somewhere, I'll chug the pool. If it's somewhere mid-game, I take similar precautions as gut. Also, I carry a potion of youth on my orc/trolls if I am going to be pool sipping or I don't sip at all.
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[DumbleDoor]

I mean, what if you get, "Nothing happens. Nothing happens. Nothing happens." Do you stop drinking? Or only after getting 3 good instrincts?

[fazisi]

Good question. It probably is just a guideline rather than a rule. I personally sip that purple drank out of the pool until I am licking the floor. Only time I stop is if I am sick and bleeding profusely and surrounded by water elementals, then I guess I'll take a breather to keep from turning that pool into one of vomit, blood and tears.
________
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[Pumpernickel]

I mean, what if you get, "Nothing happens. Nothing happens. Nothing happens." Do you stop drinking?

Yes, i find that every single sip is tempting fate, so i'll stop after three uneventful drinks.

As to why three and not two, or 25 - superstition. Pure and simple.

[DumbleDoor]

Oh. I just do it until I get something good, which will really help me, or I drain the pool.

[Soirana]

Currently my DE archer is level 20 and almost ready for the ToEF. Maybe i should sip for a wish or perma invisibility. But it is risky as well to get doomed?

Yes, in terms of getting doomed. No reason why this should be long term problem for lv20 character.





When do you people sip?
When do you people not sip?
What do you sip for? :).

I do one sipping session somewhere arround ToEF... Some like gamble with early drinking, but hiting dooming is end game and teleportitis is rather annoying.

Not to sip -- all rest game:) Early - to risky, Late not worth to hinder stats and resistances.

What for - wish, para resist, perm invisibility is probably best for me. Ofcourse some guys claim they get wish in every freaking game...

Honestly danger of uncontrolled teleportitis is overrated as long as you cleaned right side of DF and have means of teleportation.

[fazisi]

I got a 5 charge wand of wishing in my last game which I started my wish engine with though pickpocketing did most of the work in getting me poex and an assortment of rings. Having 42 socr does kind of kill the thrill of end game though but made UCGE so much easier to manage.

Personally, I like having as few wishes in a game as possible, makes it feel like I am in the game rather than just controlling it to my every whim. Maybe one pre-Khel for a garunteed aols would be nice but not necessary. I mostly just pool drink for the random factor. Surviving doom is actually fairly managable if you put your emphasis on momentary survival rather than future game impact. I've gotten into the habit of using slaying ammo more often (especially construct/jelly/giant/undead which normally sits in my pack as RNG fodder since most of these monsters I can handle through more orthodox means), chugging potions, zapping wands, reading scrolls, actually equipping aols. Survival is the most important factor in ADOM and whatever it takes to get you to D:50 is what you need to do.
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[gut]

If memory serves, there used to be a dirty evil patch one
could use to guarantee getting a wish from every pool sip.
It was many versions ago, and worked off of the fact that
pool sipping is (or was) somehow tied to the system clock.
I've never used it, or even looked for it, but it did seem to
bolster a theory I had in my savescumming days whe I was
investigating pool sip messages. Seemed like almost every
time I got a wish, there was a certain time displayed on
the systray...

[pblack]

If memory serves, there used to be a dirty evil patch one
could use to guarantee getting a wish from every pool sip.
It was many versions ago, and worked off of the fact that
pool sipping is (or was) somehow tied to the system clock.
I've never used it, or even looked for it, but it did seem to
bolster a theory I had in my savescumming days whe I was
investigating pool sip messages. Seemed like almost every
time I got a wish, there was a certain time displayed on
the systray...

this is fact. it's due to computers not being able to really generate random numbers (the random number generator is not really random... i know, it's disappionting =P).

So the calculations are done with an algorithm based on the system clock. So if you happen to get a wish, look at the exact time, if you turn the clock back and sip at the exact same time again, you'll get another wish.

And this works not just for poolsipping if i'm not mistaken. Monsters in greater vaults for example, behave like that. If you save before a vault level adn reenter it always at the sime time, you'll get always the same monsters in the vault. I'm sure that there are some other aspects of the game that could be exploited like that.

[sorear]

Normally, a system gets an infinite series of random numbers based on the time at which the program was *started*. So you say that pools are different, that you can restore the same game at different times and all that matters is the time of the quaff?

[gut]

> and all that matters is the time of the quaff?

That is the rumor I heard.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

Anyway, if the function that generates the number is adequately coded, it should discriminate at least at the millisecond level, so you shouldn't be able to tell when you'll be getting a wish from the system tray.

Of course, it might be that it's not so adequately coded...

EDIT: Now that I come to think of it, what I have just said might not be so true, because I think there's no portable way in C to get the milliseconds, it depends on each system/machine. Anyway it's what sorear says, normally RNG's are based on a chaotic series where the system time is used only once as a seed, and then random numbers are generated in a sequence that, although not really "random", should be very unpredictable.

[gut]

I really hate to start a new rumor because Soirana will
snark at me for it, but...

Back nearly a decade ago, I didn't even know about the
GB, and was save scumming like it was going out of
style. While pool scumming, I noticed that I never seemed
to get a wish when the taskbar clock's minute digit was not
on 4. This could be wild imagination, or it could be bad
memories, but I never use it in any case. I just do all my
sipping at once if I decide to sip at all.

[fazisi]

I got a pool today and got slightly strengthened, booze, then gone. I was pretty disappointed.
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[Krogg]

I think I might have posted this before somewhere, but I seem to get back to back wishes and other clusterings of pool sipping messages more often than chance would dictate. Subjectively, it has happened enough that I almost always drink at least one more drink following a wish. Anyone else notice this?