PDA

View Full Version : idea for weapon skills



xan
12-04-2009, 09:08 PM
in the weapon skills system in adom, as you use a sword you become better at using all swords, what i'd like to see in jade is a tiered weapon skill system, where when you use a sword, not only do you become better at using any sword, but also you become better at using the specific weapon that you're using.
every different sword has it's own different balance and length, even two short swords, made by different smiths are going to have their own distinct feel.
I think it makes more sense that as you are roaming along in a dungeon and you find a slightly sharper sword, that you still prefer YOUR sword, as you have an affinity for it, you've grown close during your adventures. obviously if the sword is a super shiny eternium sword and yours is iron you're going to swap, but i think that the skills you have gathered from familiarity with the specific sword should outweigh slight upgrades to the weapon itself.

Fullmoon
12-07-2009, 07:46 PM
Ah, favourite weapons... Not sure that it would be possible and playable. Especially in roguelike.

OK, I started new game.
Hm, I have cheap shortsword 1d6. Feh.
Wow, I found a shortsword 1d6+2! Cool! But I used previous sword for a week. So should I change my weapons?

You see, weapons are generated with random prefixes/postfixes/stats. So what do you perceive as same weapon piece? Only one sword? Or all swords with same stats?
Also remember, that in RL like ADOM equipment stats aren't constant. You could get them improved or abused. So what will you do then?

xan
12-08-2009, 12:51 AM
yeah, i guess every item would need it's own unique ID to identify your skill with it. weapon skills with specific weapons i would only want to be quite a small upgrade, something like 3 ranks maybe totaling in +3 hit. i wouldn't indend for this to stop people from every needing to upgrade, just slow down the rate of frivolous upgrades.

i had thought that this might also help with less combat focused characters ( farmers and merchants) using weapons that do not fit in the weapons categories, like a farmer using a stick to fight off an attack, or a merchant hitting an attacker with a chest.

perhaps too difficult to implement, but i had thought it might be cool :)

Draugo
12-10-2009, 09:30 AM
I have actually somewhat multitier weapon skills in my planned RL. It is based on the idea that there are similarities with similar types of weapons, so that using a longsword for example makes you more proficient and effective with fighting with all types of slashing weapons, but still is somewhat different from fighting with a bastard or scimitar so that longswords have their own skill too. It goes quite nicely with my planned fighting system where every item can be used as a weapon of sorts, where damage is based on the physical properties of the item, such as weight, sharpness balance etc. This means that if you're strong enough to throw a heavy table at someone, you can do that and make some great damage, but it's efficiency as a weapon is in question so you will have hard time at hitting with it. This of course opens the road for Ogre and Giant types of NPC's who wield treetrunks or large boulders as weapons (makes some great challenge for the PC when a 500 kg stone is hurling towards them).

xan
12-23-2009, 01:31 AM
I really like the idea of any item being usable as a weapon. i think it would be really cool if the weapon skill system accommodated that.

i also think that it would be really cool if items were famous and powerful because of the wielder, rather than the intrinsic properties of the weapon itself. like an heirloom sword, or a kings shield.

a focus on the history or the stories of the items would really increase the role playing fun, rather than simply focusing on maximizing stats.

i have no idea how functional these ideas might be, i just think it would help make the game fun :)

Aielyn
01-27-2010, 08:14 AM
I like this idea in its most general form.

Favourite equipment would be a great inclusion in the game. It could also play into wear-and-tear on the weapon, too.

For instance, you've fought over 200 monsters with your Short Sword (+1,1d6+2). You find a Short Sword (+2,1d6+4)... but you're better off sticking with your trusty sword, because you've become accustomed to it - you get a +2 boost to both to-hit and damage. But keep using it, and the metal will become weaker, and it may rust or break, in which case you'll need to either repair it yourself or visit a smith - in either case, it reduces how "used" to the weapon you are.

In a similar manner, you have been wearing your leather boots [+1,+1] for quite a while, walked a long way in them, they've become comfortable and well-moulded to your feet. You find a pair of Metal boots [+1,+3], but you stick with your trusty boots - not only are you getting a +2 DV boost from them, but your dexterity is boosted by 1 because they're so perfectly-fitting. But if you wear them too long, you'll actually wear a hole in them. This can be repaired, for a price. You can fix it yourself with the appropriate skill and suitable material, or you can take them to a tailor to be repaired. If you repair them yourself, it may reduce the quality of the fit.

In order to keep track of this, the game would keep a hidden counter of uses of any particular item. Any unused item would have a "Wearing in" period, during which the effects of it would be slightly reduced (maybe a -1 to-hit)... but you have to keep using it during that period, if you switch it out at any point in the wearing-in period, it returns to its "new" status. Once the "wearing in" period is finished, the game starts to actually record usage of the weapon or other equipment, and when it has been used to the appropriate extent, it starts to see modest gains to the appropriate values. Nothing massive, but a couple of points here and there, maybe a +1 to a stat, maybe two or three points boost to a to-hit/damage, DV/PV, etc, as a maximum effect.

Non-weapons made of hardier stuff might take longer to wear in (with a bigger negative in the meantime), but would see stronger improvements, and would last significantly longer. So, maybe those metal boots would take twice as long to wear in, but three times as long before they wear out, and maybe if they're fully worn in (to maximum effect), it boosts DV by 3 and PV by 1, as well as the Dx+1 boost.

Weapons made of higher metals wouldn't take any longer to "wear in", but would see greater negative impacts (say, maybe a -4 damage and a -2 to-hit) during that time. They also would take longer before they would weaken to the point of breaking... but they would improve more as the PC gets more used to them.

This could then also have further influences - some Ego weapons/armour could see these factors being altered - maybe you've got a Balanced Short Sword, which takes less time to wear in, or a Club of Heft, which takes more time to wear in, but grants a boost of 2 to strength once it has been worn in.

Each equipped item would be "worn in" in the most obvious ways - weapons through attacking, shields and armour through defending, boots through walking and kicking, amulets and rings through wearing, and tools through 'u'sing. Once worn in, equipment would be considered distinct from a pile of equivalent equipment, and the player would be able to name it for greater distinction, if they so chose. Such equipment would also always move to the "top" of a section in the pack - so in the "weapons" section, your "worn-in" weapons would be listed first, followed by other weapons.

Over periods of time during which you don't use that piece of equipment, you will gradually become less used to it, although it would still be as worn. It would require up to the original "wearing in" requirements, at most, to get used to it again, at which point it would return to the boost it was getting before.

Artifact items would be an exception to all this - they would have no "wearing in" period, and no boosts as you get used to them. What this means is that an artifact item would generally be better, but if you found another piece of equipment with matching standard stats as the artifact item, the normal equipment would end up being marginally better after extensive use, due to having been worn in. Artifacts were designed for someone else, and don't wear out, therefore they will not gain "wear" benefits. But artifacts also can't be destroyed, so there's a balance in that.

The amount of wear on an item would also gradually decrease the sell-value of that item.

Krough Firender
04-03-2010, 06:22 PM
I really agree with this idea. Maybe if you use a single weapon for so long that you eventually reach a level with it that it becomes "Insert Name Here" 's short sword; like achieving grand mastery with a single weapon. I feel like it would be cool to incorporate this with all equipment, gaining proficiency with everything. A climbing set your used to, a cooking set you know, a spellbook which you know like the back of your hand.

The original reason for my post was something else though.

I feel that weapon skill could do more. Sure the raw stat bonuses are fun, but wouldn't it be sweet if after becoming so proficient at swords, you are able to perform a special attack using ctr x, like a barbarians mighty blow. it would cost you some DV, energy points, or nothing at all if you are experienced. This could be used for all weapons, and have some of the abilities be passive.

Maces: Bash: 2500 EP, high chance of stunning
Shield Breaker: 2500 EP ... I wonder what it does...
Crippling Blow: - 5 DV 1500 EP, attacks opponents legs or arms, slows speed, slows attack rate, some damage

Pole Arms: Lunge: 3000 EP Attack from 2 spaces away, high damage, high crit chance - lots of DV
Counter Strike: chance to use the butt of the spear to counter attack after a parry, passive
Trip: ...I wonder...
Hold position: holds position (duh) in hallway, grants high DV, first strike and a chance that the opponent cant get close enough to you to attack... you immobile though

Swords: Disarming strike: chance to disarm, little damage if any.
precision strike: attacks vital organs
flat of the sword: chance to stun
other cool moves....

Bows: double shot: - accuracy, 2 arrows, at higher levels, can target more than one monster.
precision shot: take several turns to aim, high crit, high damage, high accuracy

Daggers: Close range grapple: makes opponents weapon unable to hit you if its a spear, longsword, whip...
once in grapple: martial arts moves, dagger strikes, cool ninja disabling blows, all with out necessarily doing high amounts of damage, but making your opponent useless...:cool:

Some weapons in the same class should have access to different abilities.
ex. barbed whip can cut at body parts to immobilize, long whips can attack two people if they are adjacent to you. spiked hammers have armor piercing blow. short spears don't get hold ground....

The higher your general weapon skill, the higher chance these moves have of success.

Also...
As a general comment, I think you should always have the option to throw whatever weapon your wielding at an opponent without messing with inventory slots. It would be really cool :D

JellySlayer
04-05-2010, 07:07 AM
I have actually somewhat multitier weapon skills in my planned RL. It is based on the idea that there are similarities with similar types of weapons, so that using a longsword for example makes you more proficient and effective with fighting with all types of slashing weapons, but still is somewhat different from fighting with a bastard or scimitar so that longswords have their own skill too. It goes quite nicely with my planned fighting system where every item can be used as a weapon of sorts, where damage is based on the physical properties of the item, such as weight, sharpness balance etc. This means that if you're strong enough to throw a heavy table at someone, you can do that and make some great damage, but it's efficiency as a weapon is in question so you will have hard time at hitting with it. This of course opens the road for Ogre and Giant types of NPC's who wield treetrunks or large boulders as weapons (makes some great challenge for the PC when a 500 kg stone is hurling towards them).

I seem to remember there's (at least) one roguelike where a PC wearing appropriate gloves can wield a coctrice corpse--which is rather deadly since coctrice petrifies upon contact with opponents. Just need to be careful not to drop it when you fall down a flight of stairs.

Dudley
04-16-2010, 07:14 AM
The biggest problem with them (nethack btw) is that you might accidently eat them...

dallonj
04-16-2010, 03:08 PM
I really like the idea of any item being usable as a weapon. i think it would be really cool if the weapon skill system accommodated that.



really wield the cute dog? [y/n]

the goblin throws a feces at you! you are hit. you feel sick. you feel poisoned!



the possibilities are endless...

Adom
07-04-2010, 01:05 AM
There could be 3 different weapon modifiers. For example, you have +3 to hit and +2 to damage with all swords. You have +2 to hit and +2 to damage if you are wearing a long sword. If you are wearing a certain longsword, then you have a +3 to hit and +5 to damage. This might make it better so that you don't always end up using big punch as a melee class if you haven't found a godly weapon yet.