issueid=1200 08-24-2012 03:19 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by JellySlayer: 114

In the current incarnation of the game, the Candle starsign (and, to a lesser extent, Raven) are extremely powerful compared to any other starsign. The bonus due to Candle is HP regeneration of 2 HP every 12 turns (approximately), which stacks with all racial bonuses and the Healing skill. In fact, the Candle starsign effect is so powerful that it completely dwarfs the effect of the maxed out Healing skill (1 HP every 8 turns). This, combined with a guaranteed extra talent and cheaper prayers, makes Candle the best starsign by a huge margin.

The way that the game stands now, a significant number of players simply reroll their characters repeatedly until they get the Candle starsign because it is so optimal compared to any other choice. Most other starsigns are simply never played. The extra speed and the early rune-covered trident due to Raven is a distant second, still arguably superior to any of the other choices, but not nearly in the same class as Candle.


-Reduce the effect of the Candle bonus regeneration to 1 HP every 15 turns or so. This would still be a significant benefit to classes/races with poor regeneration or lacking the Healing skill, without being the most dominant effect.
-Reduce the speed bonus of Raven starsign from 10 to 5 speed. This would probably put in more on par with other talents.
-Possibly increase the effects of the weakest starsigns--Tree, Wolf, and Falcon, IMHO.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1200
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows 7
Status Implemented
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 2
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 7
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 7
Votes against this feature 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

08-24-2012 07:50 AM
Ancient Member
Agreed on all counts.

As for buffs, we should try to make them fit with the established aspects of the starsigns.

Possibly one extra point of PV for Tree. Wolf also is associated with Ferocity, yet the starsign as of yet doesn't have anything ferocious about it - how about a 10% increase to the benefits of Berserk?

Falcon was always pretty decent because of the extra talent - it just looked shit compared to Candle, which ideally will get brought down some. Slightly boost the stat bonuses (+2 Pe and/or +2 Cha) and you should be fine.

What about Unicorn? My memory is that it doesn't affect background corruption, only inflicted corruption, and does too little to be meaningful. Something like a 1000 extra points of sustainable corruption (spread across) feels decent.

08-24-2012 03:30 PM
LFk LFk is offline
Senior Member
Not a bad idea.

The Raven starsign could be dropped to 5 speed, sure. I regard the RCT as fairly irrelevant for everyone not Raven-born, as in a typical non-ultra game the elemental delivers the trident to me halfway through D:50. This starsign making a powerful artifact relevant in addition to the companions/speed should be good enough.

A good way to make a lot of the caster starsigns significant is within another suggestion already: if HP casting was less easy, PP casting would mean more, and having more PP would be more essential. These can be left alone imo.

If candle is indeed brought down, the only ones I'd say need work are Tree and Wolf. If you add some toughness into Tree, that would make it a little more widely used, and one could make the wolf PC acquire MUCH more satiation from food (50%?) in addition to a slight stat boost.

08-24-2012 05:20 PM
Senior Member
I feel I should point out that 2 HP every 12 turns doesn't "completely dwarf" 1 HP every 8 turns. 1 HP every 8 turns means 2 HP every 16 turns (on average, that is), which means that it's only about 25% slower than the effect of Candle.

I think that reducing it all the way to 1 HP every 15 turns is a bit of an overcompensation in terms of effect. How about making it 1 HP every 10 turns? Of course, it's still overpowered in this case... so I suggest dropping the guaranteed extra talent, or perhaps substituting it for, say, 3 extra points of starting knowledge in each starting skill. There's already a guaranteed extra talent for Falcon, and making it an unique benefit for Falcon will make Falcon more useable.

For Tree, perhaps something as simple as adding +2 Toughness would be enough to make it more useful. Alternatively, +2 PV could work.

For Wolf, I suggest adding the "companions are more powerful" effect to it, as wolves are known to operate in packs, as well as perhaps increasing the DV bonuses given by weapon skills?

08-24-2012 05:45 PM
Ancient Member
The 1 HP per 8 turns is at 100% Healing, which one normally doesn't get until fairly late in the game. Having 2 HP per 12 turns makes a huge difference to survivability early game, and though it's less relevant later on the big boost at the start totally makes the starsign worth it. Especially since the extra talent is already a nice reward. I think 1 HP every 15 is quite suitable.

12-08-2012 07:19 PM
The Creator
Added the following changes:
- Candle heals slower.
- Wolf gets +25% nourishment from food.
- Tree gets +2 Toughness, +1 PV extra.

12-09-2012 09:33 AM
Senior Member
Oh. Now the Tree sounds a lot better.

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