[Suggestion] Upgrade the Quickening Tree
issueid=1218 08-27-2012 06:47 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Carter: 20
[Suggestion] Upgrade the Quickening Tree
The Quickening Tree needs an upgrade because the claw bug temple has completely superceeded it

the Quickening Tree is a cool idea, difficult to qualify to enter the tree etc.

The problem is that Greater Claw Bugs now give speed increases.

Plus the artifact found within (the boots of great speed) are completely useless, since they both doom, and corrupt.

Secondly the time elapsed is now more dangerous as it adds to background corruption. if you look at the wins in the HoF hardly any people have visited the tree because it is simply not useful.

Suggestion is you upgrade the boots to remove the doomed/corruption and add another downside if required (maybe bad luck)
Issue Details
Issue Number 1218
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows 7
Status Implemented
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 2
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 7
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 3
Votes against this feature 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




08-27-2012 07:17 AM
Senior Member
Just a thought, but what if the boots of great speed were modified to have an effect similar to seven league boots? That is if, in addition to the speed boost of +30, they also reduced movement costs? That would certainly fit the idea of them being "of great speed", and would balance them relative to their doom+corrupt nature. The fact that they're an artifact would mean that they would have value over regular SLBs (due to immunity to destruction), even after factoring in the dooming and corrupting effects.

I think the bigger issue, though, is that with all the new corruptions being made, entry to the tree (and safer entry into the rift) will be made more difficult - and if it's that difficult to enter, then people just won't. I see three ways to resolve it:

1. Add more corruptions that can make it possible to enter.
2. Have some corruptions be guaranteed to show up within the corruption set.
3. Provide alternative ways to satisfy the requirements of entry.

08-27-2012 08:21 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
I think the bigger issue, though, is that with all the new corruptions being made, entry to the tree (and safer entry into the rift) will be made more difficult - and if it's that difficult to enter, then people just won't. I see three ways to resolve it:

1. Add more corruptions that can make it possible to enter.
2. Have some corruptions be guaranteed to show up within the corruption set.
3. Provide alternative ways to satisfy the requirements of entry.
This is a really good point. Maybe one of the new items could be a "potion of buoyancy" or something that would reproduce these effects?

08-27-2012 08:34 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
Just a thought, but what if the boots of great speed were modified to have an effect similar to seven league boots? That is if, in addition to the speed boost of +30, they also reduced movement costs? That would certainly fit the idea of them being "of great speed", and would balance them relative to their doom+corrupt nature. The fact that they're an artifact would mean that they would have value over regular SLBs (due to immunity to destruction), even after factoring in the dooming and corrupting effects.
good idea. Especially if 7LB get a bit of a nerf, if the boots of great speed were full "7LB" it would make them worth the extra trip.

08-27-2012 08:16 PM
Ancient Member
The problem is that Greater Claw Bugs now give speed increases.
They always have, at the cost of significantly reducing your Wi.

I do agree that the BoGS are junk with their current share of intrinsics. If the +Doom and CHAOS were removed, they would be worthwhile. If they halve energy cost while SLBs are nerfed, even better.

08-28-2012 11:53 AM
Ancient Member
I think the boots should give +100 or more speed, and keep the doom but lose the chaos, as well as having blessed SLB effect. They'd be an interesting item then, and a bit more "great speed" rather than "decent speed". Plus the time speeding effect should be taken out or reduced, as with the fixed corruption clock it's even worse.

Also killer bugs should maybe not give +speed, or give much less of it. The dexterity bonus is already good for those that like it.

I have no problem with the corruptions being hard to get for the tree. Not every game needs to be 100% completable.

12-11-2012 10:39 AM
The Creator
I have upgraded the boots of great speed. But I also agree that not every map part needs to be accessible in every game. Makes for more interesting variance.

12-11-2012 01:57 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
But I also agree that not every map part needs to be accessible in every game. Makes for more interesting variance.
In that case, I hope that some other interesting locations are introduced that also rely on certain corruptions, so that at least one such area is reachable for each game.

12-16-2012 11:45 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
I have upgraded the boots of great speed. But I also agree that not every map part needs to be accessible in every game. Makes for more interesting variance.
It turns out they still both doom and contain the essence of chaos. Both of these are massive drawbacks on their own..

To put this into perspective, consider the girdle of the emperors. It has fantastic stats, about as good as Preserver and Bracers of War, which are considered to be among the best artifacts in the game. Its only drawback is doom. Yet this is enough to deter most people from wearing it.

Similarly, the shield of raw steel has amazing stats. Yet most people are afraid to use it, of course partly because you need to kill an important NPC but mainly because of the one drawback: essence of chaos.

Having both of these drawbacks on the same item means that it's just not going to be used, even with +100 speed.

12-17-2012 01:35 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble
It turns out they still both doom and contain the essence of chaos. Both of these are massive drawbacks on their own..

To put this into perspective, consider the girdle of the emperors. It has fantastic stats, about as good as Preserver and Bracers of War, which are considered to be among the best artifacts in the game. Its only drawback is doom. Yet this is enough to deter most people from wearing it.

Similarly, the shield of raw steel has amazing stats. Yet most people are afraid to use it, of course partly because you need to kill an important NPC but mainly because of the one drawback: essence of chaos.

Having both of these drawbacks on the same item means that it's just not going to be used, even with +100 speed.
What if +Doom was replaced with +Curse, and the essence of chaos and corruption was toned back for the item (say, only half the impact of the other artifacts with that property)?

By the way, has anyone tested to see if they in any way emulate 7LBs, now, in addition to the +100 speed?

12-17-2012 01:47 AM
Ancient Member
The boots should have no drawbacks. Entering the tree is enough of a trial with the corruption requirement and the effect on the corruption clock. Let it be a real reward.

12-17-2012 02:30 AM
Ancient Member
Live fast, die young. ;-D.

12-17-2012 03:04 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
By the way, has anyone tested to see if they in any way emulate 7LBs, now, in addition to the +100 speed?
i'll check this out, but chaos/corruption is enough to make it useless anyway.

Its like the moon sickle, which has the best damage going around - how often do people use it?

12-17-2012 03:05 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
The boots should have no drawbacks. Entering the tree is enough of a trial with the corruption requirement and the effect on the corruption clock. Let it be a real reward.
+100 speed halves the amount of experience you gain anyway, thats a pretty big downside!

12-17-2012 03:26 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Carter
+100 speed halves the amount of experience you gain anyway, thats a pretty big downside!
Yeah, and eternium two-handed swords of devastation give less weapon marks. :D

12-17-2012 03:53 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
Yeah, and eternium two-handed swords of devastation give less weapon marks. :D
Beautifully put :) But there is a balance to be found between game-breaking and useless, and the boots are currently in the wrong place. I'd be happy with keeping the Doom and having +100 speed. The essence of chaos is just way too much of a burden on play. Alternatively lose both doom and chaos and reduce it to +50 speed. Still powerful, but with a stringent overhead to acquisition that makes it justifiable.

12-17-2012 09:24 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Carter
i'll check this out, but chaos/corruption is enough to make it useless anyway.

Its like the moon sickle, which has the best damage going around - how often do people use it?
Moon Sickle appears early enough that I've had characters use it. When you run into something you can't handle otherwise, you might as well equip it.

I can't quite tell whether I would use the Boots of Great Speed in their current form. They're a late-game item, but 7LB no longer guarantee you can run away fast enough if you get in over your head. Even with doom and curse they would be tempting for an archer or spellcaster who never intends to get in melee range, or to a character attempting to use quickling hit-and-run tactics. And I think that's appropriate. But adding EoCC on top of doom sounds like overkill.

Ben

12-17-2012 10:51 PM
rho rho is offline
Member
One of the interesting things about Moon Sickle is tht it doesn't corrupt merely by carrying it around. This means that you can keep it in your backpack and pull it out as a last resort if you really need it. This makes for interesting tactical choices and richer game play. Items with essence of chaos and corruption don't have this sametactical element, because even carrying them will mess you up. I think that corrupting items would be much more iteresting if they only corrupted whe they were worn/used. That way you could carry them with you and pull them out when needed.

12-18-2012 01:23 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
Alternatively lose both doom and chaos and reduce it to +50 speed.
I feel this is the best solution. But that could be because I don't wear anything that dooms or corrupts :p

12-18-2012 02:31 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by rho
I think that corrupting items would be much more iteresting if they only corrupted whe they were worn/used. That way you could carry them with you and pull them out when needed.
Items that contain the essence of chaos and corruption corrupt a certain amount when carried, and twice as much when used already.

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