Orb guardian corpse effects
issueid=1244 09-12-2012 12:37 PM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Harkila: 128
Orb guardian corpse effects
Orb guardians should give more interesting effects when eaten.

Currently, practically all orb guardian corpses give bad (if any) effects, so practically the only use for them is to trade them for potions. In order to make it more appealing to eat them instead, I suggest the following guaranteed effects given by the corpses. Naturally it should be balanced by more corruption (~4-5 effects or so).

Snake From Beyond - water breathing intrinsic
Ancient Chaos Wyrm - fire immunity and 1000 castings of Fire bolt or Fireball.
Yulgash - teleportitis and teleport control (thought being the other RFE where Yulgash should be able to teleport despite the level restriction, also since teleportitis without control IMO ruins the fun in any possible game.
Ancient Stone Beast - the elementalist class power 50 of burrowing through stone.
Nuurag-Vaarn is rather balanced already.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1244
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows XP
Status Implemented
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 2
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 7
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 7
Votes against this feature 4
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




09-12-2012 01:56 PM
Ancient Member
Getting water breathing from the first temple you will usually find might be a little overpowered, but it's at the cost of two corruptions and losing a PoCC.

The ACW already grants fire ressistance and a few other stat bonuses, immunity would be too much.

Making Yulgash a guaranteed source of teleport control if blink dog corpses are nerfed could be an interesting possibility.

No comment on the ASB, as I don't know how powerful the Elemetalist's L50 class power is.

09-12-2012 02:08 PM
Senior Member
I really like the idea - not sure that the suggestions you made are perfect - but I really like the idea. I don't think water breathing is too powerful for the Snake, and you'd have to make sure we keep the current effects of tons of corruption too. Fire Immunity and all those castings is prolly OP, maybe just St and To bonus? Or perhaps somthing like Drakeling Spit?

09-12-2012 02:24 PM
Junior Member
First of all, I dislike the idea of them giving "normal" stat increases. NV already does that, and you don't often want to eat the corpse since most of the increases are thwarted in current versions. Water breathing is rather powerful, yes, but it's rather rarely needed also. +WBre with items is guaranteed at some point of the game so I see it merely as a tradeoff to decide when to get it. 4-5 corruptions in the early game is a rather nasty tradeoff anyway, which was as I suggested as the corruption cost for those.

As for ACW, the thought was to give something fire related. Maybe drop the stat boosts then and maybe also the fire immunity and keep the casting instead? Fire spells are not that powerful in my opinion and if you really want to use that, 1000 castings isn't that much after all.

ASB was difficult to come up with anything sensible earth related, and the Elementalist power is mostly just another workaround for pickaxes. Since wands and tools for that purpose are rather common, that probably will be skipped by most people. Could death ray resistance be one suggestion instead? The beast is unlife after all. :)

09-12-2012 02:52 PM
Ancient Member
Or carrying capacity... "you feel like carrying the Earth on your shoulders!" I'd eat it all the time :P

09-12-2012 03:14 PM
Ancient Member
I definitely like the idea of them giving individual effects, but with a high corruption / alignment cost. Water breathing makes a lot of sense for the snake. Not sure on the others, but maybe TB would have some ideas. Could be +10 natural PV from the stone beast for instance.

09-12-2012 04:24 PM
Ancient Member
Since we're getting more corruptions, maybe we could get specific corruptions from each monster?

Snake gives "Gills." Water breathing, -Ap. for instance. Plus other corruptions too, if they already do. Might be easier to do than give intrinsics. IMO its not like these are nice creatures, they don't have to help you out.
Not sure, but maybe the Fire Guy could give Scales. It's already in the game, and has its own tradeoffs. Plus its not like Fire resistance or immunity is that important after you kill him. Plus, his name is Chaos, not Fire, so maybe he just hangs out in tower, and isn't made of fire.
As for the others, I'm not sure. The Wizards could just give you bonus stats, but maybe the last guy could let you summon a random monster at the cost of mana. I kind of like the idea of corruptions, cause not only do you get the bonus, but you MIGHT not want to get corrupted. So it's a tradeoff.

09-12-2012 05:48 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Lasher
Since we're getting more corruptions, maybe we could get specific corruptions from each monster?
I disagree. :) The big point with corruptions is to take the risk of getting something random and uncontrollable. That's one of the key points in ADOM and should in my opinion not be tampered with.

09-12-2012 05:56 PM
Ancient Member
I think giving a level 50 class power available as something other characters can get from consuming a corpse is not a good idea. It cheapens what is already a pretty poor ability.

09-13-2012 10:31 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Lasher
Since we're getting more corruptions, maybe we could get specific corruptions from each monster?
I like the idea of this... IF they're permanent corruptions. If you choose to eat an Orb Guardian's corpse, you're not just corrupted, you're intrinsically corrupted by it.

Essentially, the guaranteed corruption that you'd get from each one would be placed at the "top" of the corruption list (meaning, earliest on the list), and you wouldn't be able to remove corruption beyond them. Using fake numbers, because I can't be bothered looking up the details... suppose that you could have up to 20 corruptions, and each corruption required 100 corruption points. Now suppose that you eat the Snake's corpse... you can now no longer get your corruption below 100 - you are unable to remove the Snake's corruption.

The corruptions that come from the Orb Guardian corpses should be powerful, but dangerous. I'm tempted to also say that eating them causes you to be corrupted more quickly than you otherwise would have been. Say, increase corruption rate by 20% for each corpse (eat all five, and corruption rate will be increased by a total of just under 150%). This provides a nice symmetry, in that you can trade the corpse for a PoCC, which reduces corruption, or you can eat the corpse, getting powerful benefits, but also suffering from increased corruption plus some major negatives.

Imagine it this way... you eat the Snake's corpse. Here's what happens: Permanent corruption ("You feel drawn to the maelstrom of the ocean" +Water Breathing, +10 Dx, -5 Ap, -5 Ch, -5 Wi, permanent source of "cursed" effect), +Cold Immunity (just to complete the set, Fire from ACW, Shock from Yulgash, and Acid from ASB), +Poison resistance (it's a snake, after all), +3 to 5 additional corruptions.

Note the permanent "cursed" effect - this cannot be removed by any means. Note that the game wouldn't consider you cursed... it's more akin to something that "increases your luck", but in reverse, and with the randomness added in.

09-13-2012 12:54 PM
Ancient Member
This is overcomplicating a simple idea. Remember that complex ideas are far more likely to be ignored.

09-13-2012 02:40 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
This is overcomplicating a simple idea. Remember that complex ideas are far more likely to be ignored.
I don't know, my idea is pretty simple when you condense it down. I just like to give thorough explanations to avoid confusion. Here's the condensed version:

Orb Guardians should cause unique and powerful corruptions that can't be 'cured'.

09-13-2012 04:09 PM
Ancient Member
Yeah, true, that looks much better when condensed :) I'd honestly recommend you put ideas like that in future - busy people (I know Thomas is in that number) are more likely to notice. It also leads to less nitpicking over minor details when more people can identify with the general overview.

09-14-2012 03:49 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
Orb Guardians should cause unique and powerful corruptions that can't be 'cured'.
Sound very good. Especially if we are to get extra corruptions in upcoming future.

Personally I would prefer these ones:
a) to stop corruptions above them in list from being cured
b) be last ones gained while eating guardian.
Would balance any overpowered issues:).

09-15-2012 10:44 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Soirana
b) be last ones gained while eating guardian.
Would balance any overpowered issues:).
There would have to be a few restrictions on that, though... I mean... Unholy Aura, Mana Battery, and Stiff Muscles could all be amongst the ones gained, and would simply be excessively problematic (and there'd probably be others introduced into the game).

That's why I'd rather see a boosted corruption rate as the extra problem (in addition to locked-in guaranteed corruptions), rather than random permanent corruptions. Since the guaranteed corruptions would be permanent, any overpowering problem can be compensated for within the same corruptions.

09-18-2012 08:46 PM
Senior Member
Aielin, there should be no difference in corruptions priority just because they seem bad to player. The fact that some corruptions are better than others is only understandable to a more or less experinced player, but in game world, they are all of equal evil.
This whole thing looks very insane. 1000 castings of fireball... Just imagine a mindcrafter with it... well, as much as any non-spellcaster class.
On the other hand, water breathing is close to useless, as sources are pretty common and rarely used.
Teleporting and teleport control... Both as easily obtained. And what is the connection with summoner?
Elementalist class power... That's just a delirium. It's one of the class powers that are more or less unique. It should not be so easily (yeah, easily, because you will certaily not be level 50 when facing ASB) obtained for anyone.
Intristical corruptions, the other proposal... It sounds beautiful, but surely too complicated to be added.

09-18-2012 08:57 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Spellweaver
This whole thing looks very insane. 1000 castings of fireball... Just imagine a mindcrafter with it... well, as much as any non-spellcaster class.
Non-spellcasters lose more castings per use of a spell than wizards and the like.

Teleporting and teleport control... Both as easily obtained. And what is the connection with summoner?
Ever tried luring him off his level? :)

09-19-2012 02:57 AM
Ancient Member
Probably not, because there is no good reason to and no one does unless they want to see for themselves that the Guidebook didn't lie. With Yulgash, once you even get into melee range, you go for the kill before he rolls a nasty summon.

"Can in theory teleport" seems little justification for giving his corpse powers related to it - and if anything, the game has too many sources of teleport control, not too few. The thing to go for seems some sort of summoning-related ability - perhaps turning the creatures summoned by Summon Monsters tame instead of hostile.

But then I think the orb guardian corpses are very much fine as they are. Not everything that is possible in ADOM has to be a good idea.

09-19-2012 04:27 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Spellweaver
Aielin, there should be no difference in corruptions priority just because they seem bad to player. The fact that some corruptions are better than others is only understandable to a more or less experinced player, but in game world, they are all of equal evil.
If you're responding to what I think you're responding to, then I was talking about restrictions on which corruptions could be made permanent, if the game was going to randomly choose corruptions on consuming of Orb Guardians to be made permanent.

There are some corruptions that, quite simply, completely prevent the player from doing certain things, or that make the game excessively hard, and thus would be unreasonable as permanent corruptions. But as I said, I favour having only guaranteed permanent corruptions, but having those corruptions increase the PC's corruption rate, thereby making corruptions occur more quickly. It has a similar effect, but without the problems I noted with the random permanent corruption idea.

Oh, and it shouldn't be too hard to implement permanent corruptions. There are two sides to it - creation of the corruption, and curing of corruptions. For creation, you simply move all of the current corruptions down one place, then put the permanent corruption at the top of the list. Then you modify a small variable that defines the player's baseline corruption level, increasing it by the amount required for one corruption. For corruption curing, you add a check to see if the result of trying to cure corruption would take it below the baseline corruption level stored in the variable, and if it would, you set the corruption level to the baseline level. So it requires one additional character variable (baseline corruption level - could also be used, perhaps, on Chaos Knights, by setting the level just a few points below the first corruption, so that Chaos Knights are practically guaranteed a corruption at all times), a small modification to the code that prevents corruption level from going negative (to prevent it from going below the baseline, whatever that baseline might be), and a piece of code to trigger on eating an Orb Guardian corpse, that adds the permanent corruption to the corruption list.

09-24-2012 12:33 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
No comment on the ASB, as I don't know how powerful the Elemetalist's L50 class power is.
As a L50 class power, I think it's mostly a cool gimmick as it basically works like a pickaxe with a little PP cost and no dropped items (plus, spellcasters are likely to have teleportation or digging spells by then). It might be useful at earlier levels, but after clearing the Earth temple (usually the fourth one) you probably already have reliable means of digging. So I wouldn't call it game-breaking.

Still, it's a really unique power (as opposed to water-breathing etc.) and it is guaranteed to be infinitely reusable (unlike pickaxes, wands, spells) so I don't know. The corpse effect would make it a guaranteed ability in every game, easily outweighing the cost of corruption removal.

12-11-2012 01:18 AM
The Creator
I have added some extra effects. But different from what you suggest. And I have adjusted corruption in general to affect more attributes to increase its lure now that attributes are harder to raise.

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