[RFE] Add wishable pool intrinsics.
issueid=2008 03-13-2013 09:31 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Blasphemous: 110
[RFE] Add wishable pool intrinsics.

I was always wondering about getting some of the more useful pool intrinsics by other means.
Of course eating corpses is one, but I'm talking about stuff like toggle-able teleportitis (due to being absolutely annoying, it should be possible to grant/remove it via wish), death res, see invisible, confusion/stun/sleep/para etc. resistances.
I believe that with the current game balance that pretty much removed any means of establishing wish engines, wishes became potentially much more valuable/useful/desirable, so similarly certain intrinsics that are equally valuable should also be wishable.
An exception to this would probably be invisibility since granting it permanently as an intrinsic would be a bit too much (such wishes could result in ring(s) of invisibility instead), and of course no immunities, but that is also not possible to get from pools.

In my last game on 1.2.0pre11, a mist elven wizard with treasure hunter and plenty of vaults, managed to get 4 wishes in the entire game (pool, wand, 2 RoDS, one of which was a result of dipping many rings).
I had no problems deciding what to use them for but if I had the option to get death ray resistance from a wish, I'd seriously consider saccing AMW and sticking to nature's companion for the mana temple and some other areas with death casters.

It would improve the game in that players would have to think more carefully about their wishes, considering long-term benefits and current needs as well as wider range of useful wishable bonuses.
Also, it would not replace pools since wishes are so rare.
As it is right now, the wishes still remain relatively predictable. In my case the variation between R/C is very narrow, I will usually wish for 7LB, AoLS, GoGS, spellbooks of *foo* ball, SoCRs, eternium two-handed swords, occasionally useful rings (invis/elemental mastery/slaying), in that order. This pretty much covers all my needs. Making intrinsics wishable would surely change the order a bit and add uncertainty to the best course of action.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2008
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows 7
Status Suggested
Priority 6
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 12
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 18
Votes against this feature 6
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




03-13-2013 09:36 AM
Ancient Member
You can wish for bracers of resistance if you want death ray resistance?

03-13-2013 12:14 PM
Ancient Member
There's various items you can wish for to get those resistances. They're not as good as the intrinsic of course, but personally I think the notion of a wish for an item is more fitting.

03-13-2013 04:30 PM
Ancient Member
You can wish for intrinsic-like things - permanent skill/stat increases, better weapon marks or abstract things like health, power. Why not intriniscs?
Yes, I know there are bracers of resistance, rings of elemental mastery/minor elemental mastery, blue/red/yellow/green items, I know all that.
I'm saying that right now pretty much every wish is related to items, no other "things" are sufficiently valuable to be wished for.
Wishing for mentioned intriniscs would change that and add variety to an otherwise blandly predictable wishing pattern.

03-13-2013 04:39 PM
Ancient Member
I'm undecided on this one. I would initially tilt towards Grey's side, since all intrinsics have wishable items granting them. But Blasphemous also has interesting points, and I can't see how wishing for intrinsics could be bad if wishes are scarce to begin with.

03-14-2013 01:40 PM
Ancient Member
All right, you've convinced me Blasphemous, I've changed my vote :)

03-17-2013 12:54 AM
Junior Member
Would also be cool if you could wish to lose an intrinsic.

What do you wish for? No more teleportitis.

03-18-2013 08:13 AM
Ancient Member
Would also be cool if you could wish to lose an intrinsic.
What do you wish for? No more teleportitis.
I definitely agree. If I had +tpis and a wish, I would sacrifice that wish to get rid of it without batting an eyelash.

03-18-2013 09:22 AM
Ancient Member
That would be a foolish wish (rings of teleport control would serve you far better in most cases and for others, there are always temple levels), but I guess I don't object to being able to wish to lose an intrinsic.

03-18-2013 09:48 AM
Ancient Member
Strange, I get all excited when getting intrinsic teleportation and here ppl want to wish it away? Whatever makes you happy.

It is a wish afterall, so I'm fine with it.

03-18-2013 09:54 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by SirTheta
That would be a foolish wish (rings of teleport control would serve you far better in most cases)
Even better, wish for a blink dog.

03-18-2013 10:40 AM
Ancient Member
I don't think intrinsic teleportitis is so good to have, even if you have TP control.

If you're a caster, it makes it more problematic to read books - yeah, there are solutions for that, but it's an extra problem you have to worry about.

If you're a non-caster, from a rational point of view it's a net plus (after all, you can always choose not to teleport), but I just get tired of seeing the prompt.

What I usually do with non-casters is carry around a helm of teleportation (which is a rather frequent item) so that I can have teleportitis only when I want.

03-18-2013 12:54 PM
Ancient Member
Al pretty much got it all, teleportitis is so absolutely annoying to me, that I would gladly sacrifice the wish to get rid of it. The prompt is annoying, lack of control early on is annoying.
If I want to teleport, I can find the helm like Al mentioned, or I can use a wand which is also fairly common, or I can simply cast the spell which I usually have since I prefer casters over melee chars.
Blink dogs are also relatively common and I have no problem eventually getting the corpse. Problem is with my luck I usually lose teleport control and then get teleporitis.
This is usually followed by Ctrl+Q, since in most cases I have no means of getting rid of it save for another lucky pool sip.
Teleportitis has only downsides for me, I finished the game multiple times and every time I had it, it was a pain in the ass.
Teleportitis main problem is its randomity when there are so many other, easily available means of teleporting that can be turned off at any point by removing an item or not casting spell/using wand.

03-18-2013 08:52 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi
I don't think intrinsic teleportitis is so good to have, even if you have TP control.
Good as in 'increments your survival chance' or good as in 'it doesn't bother me while I'm playing'?

03-19-2013 09:24 AM
Ancient Member
I'd say teleportitis is practically a must since the prerelease that changed TP spell costs. For non-wizards, that is.

03-19-2013 10:06 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by _Ln_
I'd say teleportitis is practically a must since the prerelease that changed TP spell costs. For non-wizards, that is.
Yay. IIRC it was around 110PP on D50 for my RatMonk, but blessed SoP is very nice now.

03-19-2013 10:50 AM
Ancient Member
Controlled teleportitis is super awesome and always has been. Wishing it away if you can't easily cast the spell is pure madness.

But back on topic, I do think a drawback of making intrinsics wishable is that certain items that were sometimes wish worthy before, such as bracers of resistance, will no longer ever be worth wishing for.

The teleport control intrinsic always has been possible to wish for (by wishing for a dog), so for that case it would not make a difference.

03-19-2013 05:25 PM
Ancient Member
Controlled teleportitis is super awesome and always has been.
I don't agree. It's hardly madness to wish away the single most annoying and least useful intrinsic in the entire game.
It has always been a curse for me, but if you feel comfortable with it then be my guest, ever since I started playing adom back in gamma11, this was the worst intrinisic imaginable to me and I feel the same way today.
I don't remember any PC that could not cast TP at some point eventually without having to rely on this capricious intrinisic.
If you like it so much, you don't have to wish it away, but give others the option to get rid of it if they so choose. Like I said earlier, I would gladly wish it away if I had such an option, this is my point of view.
I once had a starving character that found a pixie archer early on, killed it and got the corpse. You can probably imagine what happened next. Teleportitis -> shift+q.

As for the items: I don't remember a single instance when I actually wished for bracers of resistance, since the intrinsics that item gives are so easily obtainable in other ways, save maybe for death ray resistance.
For all intents and purposes, BoR are useless due to rarity and resulting late game where the item can actually drop.
However, I still think the game would only benefit from having more wish options especially if one has items they want to use but need to consider replacing another, mundane item that has one specific intrinsic they currently need.
For -deth I wear AMW which is, as you all well know, guaranteed and is used by most of my chars in 90% of games I have.
On a side note, I never wished for blink dogs either; they can be readily found in ID and getting a corpse without food preservation is tedious at best. Wishing for blink dogs is a waste of wish, no matter how I look at it.
On the other hand wishing for rings of tele ctrl is a viable strategy, but again, rather than using a wish for an item that grants intrinsic, I'd like to wish directly for the intrinsic itself.
Instead of having to wear mentioned ring, I would retain the freedom to equip RotMC+Ring of immunity or elemental mastery, or any given combination of two useful rings.

The main intention of the RFE is to introduce more variety to - like I pointed out in OP - predictable wishing pattern.

03-19-2013 05:33 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble
But back on topic, I do think a drawback of making intrinsics wishable is that certain items that were sometimes wish worthy before, such as bracers of resistance, will no longer ever be worth wishing for. .
Why wouldn't bracers of resistance be worth it? They'd be the equivalent of five wishes intrinsic-wise.

03-20-2013 04:12 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
Why wouldn't bracers of resistance be worth it? They'd be the equivalent of five wishes intrinsic-wise.
-Fire is easily obtainable intrinsically. 2x -Fire, -Cold, -Shock are available through elemental gauntlets (which you are basically guaranteed to be wearing) and RotHK (also nearly guaranteed to be wearing, unless you get quite lucky with rings or it is late in the game). =Cold and -Deth are obtainable from the AMW, which is a guaranteed armor and sufficient to get you through the game (though I usually switch it out). -Cold and -Deth are also available through the Sword of Nonnak if you want a -Deth item you can switch in one turn. The only thing not available is -Sleep; I've only been put to sleep like once in ADOM (and it was the very early game), so it's basically useless. Top this off with the fact that bracers of resistance are iron and thus easily destroyed by most things, so you can't really rely on them for intrinsics anyway (and this negates their only other advantage--smithability [which most people don't even engage in]).

So, BoR is basically always a wasted wish, even now....

03-30-2013 07:03 PM
Member
If you really want the intrinsics, you'll have to suck it up and do some pool sippin' in my opinion.

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