Make death ray travel as projectile
issueid=2351 09-19-2013 06:34 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by _Ln_: 97
Make death ray travel as projectile

Inspired by recent debates about xp gains from monsters.

Currently, death ray cast by monsters is described in various ADOM-related materials as something really very scary. And it is perfectly understandable due to the nature of the spell.

In reality, however, all you have to do is to stay out of the direct line to avoid being zapped. This works wonders against Nuurag-Vaarn and the oracle up to the point when you stand and shoot at the them without any concern.

So I propose that death ray should act like glowing balls spell. We will still have a tactic of meat shields which effectively nullifies ranged capabilities (you can't be shot - you can't shoot).

If this is implemented, it will be nice to boost xp gains for the oracle (currently less than 1000 xp).

EDIT: Seeing as there are a lot of votes against - how about making multiple sources of death ray resistance stack lowering damage? Currently it deals a lot of damage and it cannot be reduced. If we promote it to a projectile attack increasing the danger, we might allow the PC to be better prepared against it.
Issue Details
Issue Number 2351
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 8
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 17
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 1
Votes against this feature 11
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




09-20-2013 01:10 PM
Senior Member
This reasoning is based on one flawed assumption.... who told you, you actually have to fight these monsters? A viable strategy would be to avoid them. I believe that there should be much more monsters in the game actually too strong for the character to deal with that should be simply avoided until you find the way of dealing with them.

09-20-2013 01:33 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by kordi82
Actually all of the ideas are good. I see nothing wrong in stacking resistances. There aren't that many sources of DR resistance to begin with... I also see nothing wrong in making it a projectile and nothing wrong in increasing the numer of monsters able to cast it.
This was intended to be with the projectile upgrade to lower the concern of the community members :D

Quote Originally Posted by Kurasu
IMO, all this would do is make it *worse* for the player with the major concern I have, as now they need to stack multiple items in order to survive something that, if they kept out of the line of fire/sight, they could handle quite well. My concern is that a player should *not* have to keep specific gear around just for one specific enemy. Having the option to do so is one thing, but most other creatures, you can find alternative ways to deal with it.

For example: instead of Rings Of Ice, you can carry a Fireproof Blanket and wear low-melt things; instead of being forced to use a Ring Of Karmic Absorption, you can fight at range or with spells; instead of a Phase Dagger, you can use spells, piercing/slaying ammo, a lucky find on a 'of penetration', or have high enough damage to penetrate high PV.

For a creature with Death Ray, at the moment, you have Death Ray resistance, or you stay out of the line of fire of that ray. With your suggestion, you would have absolutely no option for fighting that opponent *except* to wear items of Death Ray Resistance, and even then there's a likely chance that your character will die because it still does vast amounts of damage, so you need to *somehow* find multiple (when there is only two guaranteed that will not rape your stats with corruption) and pray it's enough to fight the enemy. In addition, most of those guaranteed sources require you to do Chaotic acts, so say goodbye to your Platinum Girdle if you want to have a chance of fighting against any enemy that uses a Death Ray. And being as at least one of those Death Ray using opponents is a mandatory kill, that would make the Platinum Girdle game even more prohibitively difficult than it already is.

Not only does this force the character to *have* to fight them in only one way, but it forces the character to pray for the whim of the RNG for a rare resistance. This, to me, is why it's just too problematic to make it a projectile.
AMW is one source that everyone gets. Show me a game when you don't have a single amulet of death ray resistance by the Mana Temple. That's already 2.

Death ray uses the same mechanic as all other spells. With very high speed/Alertness you will evade it 99% of the time.
First of all, emperor liches do much less damage than 200, around 100 (my field experiments confirm information we shouldn't discuss here), 200+ is for Chaos Archmage/Andor Drakon.
If the second source reduced damage by half, you'll get laughable damage.
Currently Chaos Archmage is useless in ranged combat and he is rarely engaged in melee. I've never died to him in fact and not because I'm any good. This is getting boring for me.
Andor Drakon is a joke boss we should get to in some prerelease and overhaul.
Ki-rins I don't even wish to discuss since I've seen exactly one during 5 or 6 years I've played ADOM and that was with L+ char.

Oracle is a free +6 Learning boost for anyone with (+1, +0) bow and 4-5 1d6 arrows. Thankfully she is balanced by that dooming.

09-20-2013 05:09 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by _Ln_

Show me a game when you don't have a single amulet of death ray resistance by the Mana Temple. That's already 2.

Send me you email adress, I have Level 37 orcish merchant with no death ray resistance amulet in the item memory. :D
Taking into account this is one of two games I played seriously in a very long time this is 50% of games for me with no amulet of DR resistance :D.

BTW.
You forgot about sword of Nonnak, which is guaranteed... and you are awfully stuck at what IS and unwilling to think what COULD BE. This is RFE after all. It's all about WHAT COULD BE. I can tell you one thing for sure about what IS. Endgame is boring and too easy. We should think of ways to change this.... amen.

09-20-2013 06:21 PM
Member
"The endgame is boring and easy", for players who have experience going through it. Maybe you should be looking at ways to make the end game more challenging for veteran players while not making the threshold for newer players to overcome much higher; instead it seems that at every step of the game, Kordi82, you are in favor of changes that would make the game many times harder/more frustrating for less experienced players, at the benefit of making your own experience slightly more "fun."

09-20-2013 08:56 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by StViers
"The endgame is boring and easy", for players who have experience going through it. Maybe you should be looking at ways to make the end game more challenging for veteran players while not making the threshold for newer players to overcome much higher; instead it seems that at every step of the game, Kordi82, you are in favor of changes that would make the game many times harder/more frustrating for less experienced players, at the benefit of making your own experience slightly more "fun."
And look at the changes that I proposed so far.
- capping speed abuses related to bug corpses
- capping experience for cat lord + removing a strategy for dealing with that TB wanted to remove by making his level no teleport area
- making death ray a more thing but allowing for resistances to be stacked for it
- removing abuses related to alchemy so that it is no longer source of infinite fireballs
- removing the ability for slow monster to be cast on yourself

Feel free to add to the list if I have forgotten any of my own ideas.
Look at the list above and please tell me which of the suggestions above actually hinders new players? Most of them are targeted against people like me, who know the game well enough to abuse its mechanics.

Yes I am raging about the end game being too easy but I have enough experience to propose changes that are reasonable in their impact. So stop wining.

09-20-2013 09:39 PM
Member
You forgot about sword of Nonnak, which is guaranteed...
I didn't. You have to dig a grave to get that, and digging graves is a chaotic act.

09-20-2013 09:42 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Kurasu
I didn't. You have to dig a grave to get that, and digging graves is a chaotic act.
I do not even know how to comment on this... will leave this with a moment of silence.

09-21-2013 01:15 AM
Ancient Member
It would be a shame to lose the potential for bouncing death rays. Maybe if the layout of mana temple could be changed a bit :p
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Quote Originally Posted by kordi82
I do not even know how to comment on this... will leave this with a moment of silence.
I know; people imposing gameplay restrictions on themselves... how strange. Now imagine if they restricted something like herbs, teleportation, or exp abuses :-)

09-21-2013 09:50 AM
Senior Member
people imposing gameplay restrictions on themselves...
It looks more like Paragon requirement than like restriction.
About request itself. People are not against because it's going to make game harder, more because
1) Bouncing bolt is cool.
2) There is a reason to put an Oracle in such a position.
3) It's not going to add anything really interesting. When I fight liches, I'm afraid they summon something scary or drain my stats, not that they do 100 damage by death ray.
4) Tradition. It's just how bolts always were working. Changing it sounds like, IDK, adding shotguns to the game.

09-21-2013 10:06 AM
Member
It looks more like Paragon requirement than like restriction.
Yes. That was my exact point. As I said earlier, if you are *required* to do Chaotic acts in order to get enough items for -Deth, then it makes Paragon prohibitively difficult. :)

09-21-2013 11:18 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Kurasu
Yes. That was my exact point. As I said earlier, if you are *required* to do Chaotic acts in order to get enough items for -Deth, then it makes Paragon prohibitively difficult. :)
If you want to play restriction games, please put another thread or RFE to balance any . Mixing it into general conversation is.... (I will leave three dots not to put offensive language, but go figure). It's like saying -" please do not change the weight of elemental orbs cause it will make Lithium Man impossible to accomplish".\\

09-21-2013 12:17 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by kordi82
If you want to play restriction games, please put another thread or RFE to balance any . Mixing it into general conversation is.... (I will leave three dots not to put offensive language, but go figure). It's like saying -" please do not change the weight of elemental orbs cause it will make Lithium Man impossible to accomplish".\\
Well, paragon is actually a part of the base game: there is an actual acknowledgement and reward for it in the game (however token it may be). This at least puts it into a somewhat different category than a challenge game like Lithium Man (i.e. the game isn't keeping track of whether you break Lithium's restrictions nor does it give you an accomplishment line and score bonus).

09-21-2013 01:22 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by kordi82
If you want to play restriction games, please put another thread or RFE to balance any . Mixing it into general conversation is.... (I will leave three dots not to put offensive language, but go figure). It's like saying -" please do not change the weight of elemental orbs cause it will make Lithium Man impossible to accomplish".\\
It's like saying "please don't forbid wishing for AoLS because it will make ultras far harder". And it totally makes sense.

09-21-2013 02:15 PM
Senior Member
I refuse to participate further in this trollish discussion. Have fun!

EOD

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