This is a superb idea. I'm all for the bonuses only applying while in the tool slot.

Yeah, my initial idea was that the bonuses should only apply when in tool slot but perhaps that would be too harsh for those who want to wield it as a weapon.
Still, from the lore point of view I feel the intrinsics and attribute bonuses should only be active while in tool slot.

Lore-wise, if its bonuses didn't apply if it's used as a weapon, that would imply the dwarf who crafted this fine piece of mining equipment objected to it being used, on occasion, to tear open the guts of goblins, kobolds and other filthy rival cave-dwellers. Somehow I have trouble believing that.

That's just crazy. Why on eart...Ancardia would it not grant the bonuses while wielded.

I've always seen it as a melee weapon first and then a tool. Not the other way around.

It is displayed under 'one-handed weapons' in inventory. It is like expecting a swift hatchet of the eagle to only give its bonuses in the tool slot.

If you want the bonus I'm afraid you'll have to wield it. It's a hard life. ADoM is not a place for the weak.

As I see it, the tool slot is just an interface convenience. Your character doesn't carry a weapon, shield, bow, arrows and the tool on his hands all the time. 'u'sing the pickaxe (or other items) from the tool slot costs the same energy as 'U'sing it from the inventory, so I'm inclined to believe that the character doesn't carry it in any special place, but rather where it always is. Then where does he carry the elemental orbs? You got me there. The tool slot really doesn't have much consistency to me so I guess reasoning based on that doesn't really work that well.

I would be for the bonuses to apply ALSO on the tool slot, but making them exclusive to the tool slot doesn't make sense. But then I could ask why can't I use the rune-covered trident in the tool slot as well and get +12 Dx. Maybe there's some special magic in Hammerhead like you say, who knows. Or maybe it's because ADOM decides for me what I can and cannot use as a tool.

It's not about hard or weak, you don't need to tell me Ancardia is a harsh place. I've been there since gamma 16.
It's about what makes sense in this SINGLE, particular case. All pick axes are listed under one handed weapons, yet does anybody wield a pick axe (50s) (-1, 1d4-1) as a weapon? No, because it's not its intended use and it's a bad weapon at any point.
I'm talking about changing a single unique item to grant bonuses in tool slot, not all of them. This is an artifact and thus it's a special case.

I agree it should grant the bonuses while wielded, not a problem to me. This part stays the way it was.

As for the trident in tool slot - why put it there? What's the intended use of a trident in tool slot? Stabbing tiny cruel-looking fish and taking them out of the red lake to bake them with fire bolt and eat?
A trident is a weapon and only a weapon. A pickaxe CAN be a weapon but it's mostly a tool, to dig out things.
Yes, I want to have the bonuses active while Hammerhead is in tool slot and I'm using my eternium long sword of devastation with my tower eternium shield in right and left hands, because the latter two items are superior to the pick axes in every conceivable way when wielded, but useless when in the tool slot. Will this make Ancardia a much easier place to live in? No. Will it vastly shift the fragile balance of in-game items and intrinsics? No. Do you find Hammerhead in PC:1, right next to the staircase, every time you make a new char? Definitely no. It's more like 1 in 10 games to me that I find it AT ALL,during the course of the entire game.
So what's the problem?

Oh I get it. This will be a spit in the face to all those people that want to remove everything that can occasionally make the game easier/simpler.
The same people that wanted invisibility nerfed, same people that complained about banshee in animated forest, same people that wanted to nerf stairhopping by disabling item generation in stair rooms....
Same people that inspired a thousand changes to things other people painfully and painstakingly discovered over the years and used that knowledge to their advantage, just because they are "overpowered" or "ubalanced" or "too easy" or whatever.

Well now that you mention, yes, I would completely remove herb training if I could. I would completely remove on-demand teleport if I could. I would probably remove many other things even if I can barely beat ADOM as it is today. : )

But you are arguing for this particular case with these particular stats. How about we made Hammerhead provide +20 toughness, would it still be okay to get that from tool slot? I am arguing against this particular case because for some reason I don't like many exceptions and gotchas and so on. If I can put one weapon on tool slot and get intrinsics, why cannot I put any other old weapon and get the same result?

I'm fine either way, just speaking my mind.

Yes, I don't believe it is good for ADoM players to have easy games on occasion. You'll always see me opposing changes in that regard.

This RFE is about exactly what you said in your previous post, getting the bonuses for free while wielding better weapons.

Being it a rare item or not. Some character will eventually find it. Some players might even scum for it.

Stop trying to make the game easier, it is already easy enough.
Rather work on making it a little more challenging as a matter of fact and do report any exploits that stiil exist that you have painstakingly discovered.

I have no intention of reporting any exploits that I've found (there are still some in p18), the game is already challenging enough.
In fact, I will deny the existence of any such exploits when someone else suggests to change them and I will counter every notion to do so, however I can.

Aside from that, how do you suggest somebody might scum for Hammerhead? It's a random artifact, might as well scum for Preserver or BoW.
This doesn't make the game easier, NOT ONE BIT. Only forces it to make more sense.
Getting mediocre (at best) bonuses for free, IF you find a very rare item, as Hammerhead is subject to the same rule of predetermined set of artifacts that can be generated in a given game for a given character.
Additionally, mentioned bonuses are -fire, -stun and +3 To. Truly outstanding instrinsics and attribute modifiers, game-breaking in every respect... please.
Allowing them to be available from tool slot for only ONE item in the entire game does not make it easier, especially when their usefulness can easily be achieved with more mundane items, corpses and a bunch of other methods.

I'm not suggesting to change the bonuses, only to make them active while this single item is in tool slot. If it granted 10 toughness, I'd understand the reluctance to do that.
But it only gives 3, and only two basic resistances. That truly is not much.

Because Hammerhead's primary function is as an indestructible digging tool, although it can still be used as a weapon.

If there is a meaningful use for weapons as tools, why not permit it with all the bonuses they grant? We already have scourges and whips that play a role here, but it's hard to imagine many other items that way.
How does a whip of snake not grant Dx and Speed bonuses when used for self-flagellation and grants them when used as a weapon? Do you handle the grip differently when beating yourself rather than a monster? Do you insulate your hand somehow?

You want a sword in a tool slot? Why? As a personal shaving device? There is no shaving in adom. To slice bread? You don't need to slice it, you eat it right away in adom.
You have axes in the game, yet for the purpose of cutting down trees, you have a hatchet. Can you do that with an axe? Yes you can. With a sword? Sure, a bit more swinging but possible. A dagger? Yeah, it's gonna take two days but it's possible.
Then you have digging. Pickaxes are specifically meant to be used for that. Can you kill things with a pick axe? Of course, just like you can kill them with a whip or a hatchet. Slightly or significantly more difficult but still possible, even if their intended purpose was not to spread death.
Hell, you can wield an amulet of life saving in your right hand as a weapon and beat nasty monsters to death with it. But does it make sense? No.

What happens after that? Somebody finds a way to abuse/exploit certain class powers, items, skills.. they get nerfed or removed altogether.
What is the final result when this continues for a few years? You only have few races and classes that barely differ from each other, everything is unified and boring.
This is the direction where it's all headed. I will never agree with that. Instead of making it more challenging, you're only making it more annoying and tedious.
I have already found a way to circumvent no-item-generation in ID stair rooms and I'm using it successfully like I did before, with the only difference that it's more time consuming and tedious now.
I wonder when that will be changed too, because some people start crying about things being too easy.
You reward ingenuity with continued reduction of diversity in the game, and yet nobody seems to bother with the extremely annoying summoners that can clog half of the level with endless stream of weak monsters that don't even drop items and their death at your hand is rewarded with some meager amount of experience. Spider and wolf factories occurring in CoC big room make it a pain in the ass just to cross the room. Mind you, I've yet to die due to that, I don't remember my last death due to being overrun by summoned hordes. They are rarely a threat, only annoyance.
I have another way to kill massive amounts of animated trees and get loot without banshee. The result is roughly the same. Difference? It's more tedious and time consuming than before.
I have also found a way around herbs not training potentials. AGAIN the only difference is that my current method is much more time-consuming and tedious. Not less effective, just boring and more discouraging.
This is the only achievement this change has brought. Is this really the direction you want the game to follow?

Dear Blasphemous, none of these tedious/annoying practices is necessary at all. It feels to me that you waste a lot of time trying to find exploits instead of simply enjoying a free flowing fun, yet challenging game.

Even summoners is a very minor annoyance if you've figured out how to handle them. Still, I did make a RFE to make them less of an annoyance and people still opposed that. After I created a RFE to make them more of an annoyance. How that works I'm still stunned over.

You of all people ask me how to scum for an artifact? I don't know whether this one is in the same set as BoW/Preserver, if not then pre-crowning maybe or DF. Yes, DF is probably best.

It would have been best to leave certain things as they are. Just going with the flow forces you to face many threats barely able to survive them.
Mentioned strategies are meant to prepare the PC for those challenges with decreased risk of dying. There are speedrunners and there are turtles.
I prefer the turtle approach of gathering remedies for every conceivable (or inconceivable) threats I can encounter rather than rush head on and hope for the best.
Tedious/annoying practices are sadly more and more present in the recent 1.2.0 prereleases because people that don't use them would like them removed instead of just ignoring them and playing the game however they like.

You'd have to be extremely lucky to get Hammerhead in DF, I did some testing with that in p16 and I've never encountered Hammerhead in DF. It feels like one of the rarest artifacts in the game. As for precrowning, I think only ~3 classes can potentially get it.

I am adventurer in Ancardia and I know that if I put my white broadsword of might in my tool slot, I will get cold resistance, +2 St and +2 To. That's the reason. It's exactly the same reason I'd want to put Hammerhead in my tool slot, most of the time.

Actually, the more scumming methods you use and the more stat training you have, the less the classes differ. In the old days you could have a troll barbarian start with 32 toughness and a gnomish wizard with 7. After herb training, the barbarian would have toughness 32 and the wizard 25. That is LESS difference, not more.

Anyway, I already told why I don't like it, but I also said I'm not really against, so there shouldn't be much to discuss.

Any Dwarf can be crowned with Hammerhead. It's pretty common by that standard.

It's exactly the opposite.

In ADOM 1.1.1, all races and classes played very similarly precisely because of the exploits. The standard scummy technique was buff all your stats to demigodhood with OP herbs (so that an elf in the midgame had exactly the same To as a troll), obtain infinite items with OP pickpockets and the OP casino, and storm the game. Well, OK, there was some variation: if you were a caster you'd storm the game by spamming acid ball out of HP, and if you were a melee character you'd be forced to stomp through enemies with your scummed stats.

With the changes in the prereleases, races and classes actually feel much more different. An elf won't have the toughness of a troll. Not all bosses can be defeated with the exact same technique. A wizard will need some more strategy than spamming acid ball.

Note that I'm not especially a fan of making the game more difficult. But the right way to make it easier is not with cheap exploits. Exploits achieve just the opposite of what you say: that all characters play the same way, there is no variation. If you want to make the game easier, why you don't just propose better starting stats, stronger starsigns, stronger damage rolls for weapons, etc.?

For me, ADOM 1.2.0p18 is a WAY better game than ADOM 1.1.1, and I hope the removal of scummy and exploity techniques continues.

About the specific case of Hammerhead, I agree with the proposal, i.e., I think it would be good that the boni acted when it is on the tool slot too. I don't think it's exploity (it makes a lot of sense thematically) and it wouldn't even make ADOM easier. Most players who know how to play will have orbs in the tool slot for the majority of the game, and they will rarely prefer Hammerhead to that.

I'd vote yes if the bonuses are to be granted only while digging, simultaneously nullifying bonuses from hand weapons/shields. I'd also like to see the use of missile combat and right/left hands bonuses mutually exclusive within 1 turn. But this will never get implemented because it's too much of a code bother.

IMHO TB made a bad decision when he devised extra tool/missile weapon slots which work at the same time as hands. They are perfect for user interface, but dreadful for game balance (well, missile weapon at least). Seriously, where do you carry a lit torch when you are swinging AoTME?

The tool slot exists in part so people can actually use torches for light without gimping themselves. Yeah, it doesn't make sense that you can hold the torch and use both hands for weapons at the same time, but sometimes gameplay trumps "realism". Same for missile weapons, while we're at it. For Hammerhead, it's not hard to imagine a way it works; while the PC is fighting, they affix it to a strap on their hip or back or somesuch.

Anyway, if it works for the chaos orbs, I can see no reason that it couldn't work with Hammerhead. It is both a mining implement and a weapon, so why should its powers only work for one mode of the two? It's not like it's a terribly powerful artifact, and the bonuses it grants are dwarfed (dohoho) by the chaos orbs anyway.

Yeah, let's not pretend this isn't getting jettisoned for a chaos orb at pretty much the earliest opportunity (assuming you even find it before the Fire Orb [or perhaps are unlucky enough to receive it for crowning]). It's just a nice bonus that makes a lot of thematic sense - and something that used to confuse me since Chaos Orbs give bonuses in the tool slot.

Also...I didn't read most of this thread because wow, long, but I did want to respond to the whole "it appears under one-handed weapons" thing. All pickaxes do this, but they are definitely primarily (slash almost only) used as tools as is their intent. They appear under one-handed weapons because they have relevant combat statistics (after all, they'll do in a pinch). And I've thus been convinced the other way and think that bonuses should apply both while wielded and in tool slot :)

This is going to sound stupid but maybe pickaxes should be classed as tools instead of weapons?

It might put a frown on faces, why then not scalpels, hatchets, scythes and sickles.

The only reason items can be put into the tool slot is to indicate to the player that these items can be 'u'sed and to make using them an easy interface option. So that the player don't have to search his inventory every time.

Torches are of course a 'convenience' exception.

Not sure what the idea is behind the orbs granting a bonus while equipped there. Only the creator can answer that.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's not like people would be at a disadvantage when they can't swing their pick axe (+0, 1d6+1) in melee when it's so easy to find a better weapon.

Do you know any artifact scalpel? Sickle? There is one artifact scythe - Moonsickle - which despite the name is not a sickle but serves much the same purpose as agricultural tool.
The problem is, there is no mowing/haymaking in Adom, not even with the farmer class. So a scythe/sickle serves no purpose.
Hammerhead is both an artifact AND a very useful tool that is actively used throughout the game, which cannot be said about any other item.
I'd dig 1-2 wall tiles everywhere in CoC to shorten the paths between staircases, not to mention chaos temples if I don't have a wand.
It's useful to enlarge already big rooms to increase monster generation area.