[Balance]Banshee
issueid=1376 12-04-2012 04:05 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by JellySlayer: 114
[Balance]Banshee

I think one of the nasty things about the Banshee level for unprepared/underprepared PCs is the fact that it is quite possible that, upon immediately opening the door to the Banshee room, the PC can die without having a chance to react to her presence. Her room is pretty small--about 4x6, I think, and the range on her wail is a 3 square radius, so the odds of getting hit when you open the door are pretty high.

A few simple fixes might be:
-Reduce the range of the wail from 3 squares to 2, giving a bit more buffer room.
-Greatly increase the size of the Banshee's room. Maybe 6x8 would be appropriate.
-Make the Banshee's wail do damage proportional with distance rather than instant kill in its entire range. Perhaps it takes 33% of max HP per turn at 3 square range, 66% of max HP per turn at 2 square range, and only guaranteed to be lethal if she is adjacent.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1376
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 6
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 7
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 1
Votes against this feature 5
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-06-2012 05:42 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by St. Viers
He does. But how is a new player going to know to ask him about it? There would need to be a guaranteed fotune cookie room or something to pique their curiosity
From the Mad Minstrel song, which is guaranteed. 'Bee'ware is what you need..
Beware is what you need. <--Now that sentence just doesn't make sense. Even the next line from the song tells you to understand the verb.

If that doesn't make one curious, I don't know, die from her wail I suppose.

The tavern in Dwarftown is pretty much guaranteed. If a new player reaches the Banshee totally unspoiled, I'll be very impressed.
By the time a unspoiled player reaches the Banshee, I think his read near to all the fortune cookie messages.

12-06-2012 08:42 AM
Ancient Member
I would be very surprised, to say the least, if anyone got all the way to the banshee - unspoiled - without either knowing about the "more" in the look command and therefore the monster memory or having heard the mad minstrel songs. Before I spoiled myself silly, I'd explored the wilderness and heard the minstrel songs several times over. The 'l'ook command is something players usually learn within the first couple of hours, with no assistance from outside. A player who doesn't look at monster details nor has explored the wilderness enough to find the mad minstrel, but CAN reach the banshee unspoiled, is sort of like a cook who can deliver star-level dishes but doesn't know how to read (including recipes) or use a microwave. Such a person may exist, but it's unlikely to the point that it's silly to make a change in the game just for their benefit, if it diminishes the mystery associated with the banshee so severely.

... I mean, come on. You don't have to be me to know how to use the monster memory. Give ADOM players some credit.

12-06-2012 10:18 AM
Ancient Member
Yeah, if you play an RPG unspoiled one of the basic things you do is try to listen to all rumors, songs, etc. available in the game. It's a dangerous world and you need all the information you can get.

I distinctly remember that I had listened to the Minstrel songs, and learned from them, before I was skilled enough at the game to get to the mid CoC.

I did get killed by the Banshee back then but I don't think it was an unfair death. I had enough information to know to use beeswax, but I wasn't clever or careful enough to heed it - so I learned the "B" way, by dying. It's how it should be. This is ADOM, not The Hello Kitty Friendly Land Adventure.

I'd be in favour of measures to give the player one turn to look at the banshee with the "look" command, as has been proposed - but not more. More than that would be insulting ADOM players by treating them like toddlers instead of epic heroes.

12-06-2012 02:23 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
Just on a side note: As a new unspoiled player reaching the banshee for the first time, you've lost many, many, many PC's and some were insta-deaths.
So dying from the banshee wail when encountering her/it for the first time is not too bad, relatively speaking. Sure it's a bit further into the game, but once a player has made it thus far, it becomes easier with each new character to reach the midgame.
That's my experience anyway and it is what made it fun to play, thinking you have this powerful character and the next moment it's dead. It prepares a player better for the endgame.
Agreeing here. I was killed as an unspoiled player by the banshee. That was memorable. It is quite part of the experience as unspoiled player, that you may die at any point that you have not been before. I was always still happy dying further in the game than ever before, so I think the banshee is just fine as it is.
What's a bit lame, i think, is most part of the late game, where death threats dwindle away (casino shopkeeper and archmage and doppleganger kings. did i miss anything?)

PD: The warnings are really there to tell you what to do NEXT time to not die AGAIN, because after having died once, you may understand them. It's intended and fine this way.

12-06-2012 06:21 PM
Junior Member
Can anyone honestly say that the fist time he entered the bug temple he survived? SMC? Fire tower? Underwater cave?

12-06-2012 06:43 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by cyrilverba
Can anyone honestly say that the fist time he entered the bug temple he survived? SMC? Fire tower? Underwater cave?
The Underwater cave is the most memorable. HP: -157(???)

12-06-2012 06:51 PM
Ancient Member
H: -852542046(???)

And that's how I learned not to kick walls with a ring of weakness and the 1/10 weight corruption.

12-06-2012 07:55 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
is sort of like a cook who can deliver star-level dishes but doesn't know how to read (including recipes) or use a microwave.
While I totally agree look chance is sufficient to fix this (sorry, but asking about Banshee fixes nothing, did anyone ask for monsters not yet encountered by name successfully?), there are many self taught cooks that cook by trial and error and repetition (just like RLs I guess) and avoid microwave. Actually, using a microwave might be a sign of a bad, recipe-literate cooks.

12-06-2012 08:42 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by szopin
... there are many self taught cooks that cook by trial and error and repetition (just like RLs I guess) and avoid microwave.
So, your saying eventually many players will get good at getting past the Banshee. :P

12-08-2012 08:15 AM
The Creator
I heaped some more - decent - hints upon the player. But enough's enough ;-)

12-08-2012 04:59 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by cyrilverba
Can anyone honestly say that the fist time he entered the bug temple he survived? SMC? Fire tower? Underwater cave?
LOL, when I first entered ToEF, I thought that heat would disappear after some turns and ventured forward.

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