Get rid of useless artifacts
issueid=1535 12-23-2012 03:46 AM
Exy Exy is offline
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Exy: 1
Get rid of useless artifacts
Reduce the likelihood of a vault, surge of power, or precrowning giving something with no real use

As long as new artifacts are being added (thus reducing the odds that a vault or a precrowning will give one of the old favorites like the famed shining silver bracers, the sapphire amulet, or the fine leather armor), how about clearing away some of the artifacts that are really useless?

Silver key: A key that can open any door sounds awesome, but in ADOM, that only duplicates the effect of having six regular keys. There's no real way to make this artifact anything but a disappointment to the player who gets it.

Thunderstroke/True Aim: Widely considered useless. Various other ideas have been suggested for good artifacts for archers -- these just need to go. It pretty much never makes sense to use ammo that won't stack with anything, since reloading takes time. No one uses these. How would they ever achieve legendary status with no archer in their right mind using them?

Soaker/Scorched Spear/Long Sting/Cat's Claw/Black Thumb: There are a bunch of artifact weapons that just don't make sense to use. There's no real reason to use these items; I don't see any way (or reason) to save them.

Nature's Friend: Lust for Glory has wussy numbers but it actually makes sense to use because it has some really valuable resistances -- dual wielding it with a higher DV shield actually makes serious sense for spellcasters. Nature's Friend is similar, except that its resistances aren't useful. Alternatively, it could be made significantly more powerful, since there are few artifact shields -- but it's depressingly useless as is.

The Black Tome and Shezestriakis: I actually really like these for story reasons. I think it'd be worth making them more powerful so that they it no longer is an absolutely idiotic choice from a gameplay perspective to actually use them, but whether they change or not, I'd be sad to see them go.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1535
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Won't Fix
Priority Unknown
Affected Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 8
Fixed Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 0
Users unable to reproduce bug 14
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-23-2012 04:03 AM
Ancient Member
While I wouldn't want to get precrowned with the black tome or Long Sting, I don't see why all artifacts have to be very powerful or useful. The si has no clear use whatsoever, and generating the level it resides on makes it harder for you to get a(nother) precrown. Should it be deleted from the game too?

12-23-2012 04:03 AM
Ancient Member
I rather like them. spice of life and all that. Sure, some of 'em could be beefed up, however.

12-23-2012 04:10 AM
Ancient Member
Big thumbs down from me. I think useless artifacts add to the game. If anything, I wouldn't mind seeing a few more ;)

12-23-2012 04:36 AM
Senior Member
I wouldn't mind seeing them tweaked to make them just a little better, but they definitely should stay.

12-23-2012 04:48 AM
Junior Member
Without subpar artifacts, you might feel regret over feeding the demented ratling =P

12-23-2012 05:24 AM
Exy Exy is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by St. Viers
Without subpar artifacts, you might feel regret over feeding the demented ratling =P
That's another good rationale to make every artifact useful, isn't it? I'd like to see it be a slightly tougher choice there. I was really only thinking of random artifacts, but this is a reason to think about the Phial of Caladriel, the Sword of Nonnak, and various others -- there's a fair few artifacts that it's a pretty easy choice to sacrifice.

12-23-2012 06:10 AM
Exy Exy is offline
Junior Member

Get Rid Of UselesS ArtifactS

12-23-2012 06:11 AM
Ancient Member
Once got a surge on the first dungeon level I entered SMC.
Silver Key.
Was awesome early game other wise it sucks balls, especially as the first useless gift. Oh lol, the RNG has some humour.

12-23-2012 08:49 AM
Ancient Member
Another thumbs down from me. Some could be beefed up, yes, or given more "personality" (especially stuff like Long Sting, etc.), but I wouldn't like to see them gone.

12-23-2012 09:32 AM
Senior Member
There always should be randomness, i.e., chance of finding some useless artifact. Other way precrownings/surges would be too great.
And, BTW, Scorched Spear is better than eternium one.
Also, there is also such thing as ratling fodder.

12-23-2012 09:54 AM
Ancient Member
Some of these can be handy early game. Not every artifact has to be D50 material.

12-23-2012 04:12 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
Some of these can be handy early game.
The only one I can think of that wouldn't be great to receive as a random drop in PC:1 is the black tome.

12-23-2012 05:32 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
The only one I can think of that wouldn't be great to receive as a random drop in PC:1 is the black tome.
How about obsidian quarrel?

12-23-2012 05:44 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Spellweaver
How about obsidian quarrel?
If you can find a crossbow (and they're relatively common), it can be fired in Berserk tactics to one-shoot most early game threats.

True Aim would be even better, since bows are even more common and the average damage is just a little lower.

12-23-2012 06:11 PM
Exy Exy is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
The only one I can think of that wouldn't be great to receive as a random drop in PC:1 is the black tome.
How is that a relevant standard? It's a legendary object so famous that the PC apparently already knows its name, and it's . . . good enough that if you get it right at the beginning of the game, it's totally worth swapping out your 1d4 dagger for it and using it until you get something decent?

12-23-2012 06:23 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Exy
How is that a relevant standard?
Carrying it corrupts. Reading it corrupts a ton, and you might not even learn anything (if you were guaranteed to learn whatever spell is chosen, that'd make an interesting decision). Alright, it's not 100% useless because you can sell it at Barnabas' for a good amount of gold. But you'd be way happier to generate Long Sting or even Black Thumb at this point, because they are excellent early weapons.

12-23-2012 06:46 PM
Senior Member
it'd be nice if the black tome would allow bookcasting any chosen spell, just instead of paying the cost of mana it'd be applied as corruption points.

it'd offer an interesting choice for Mana Temple, for example. also, Wish could be excluded from the spell list or just cost too much corruption to be worth it.

12-23-2012 06:53 PM
Exy Exy is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
Carrying it corrupts. Reading it corrupts a ton, and you might not even learn anything (if you were guaranteed to learn whatever spell is chosen, that'd make an interesting decision). Alright, it's not 100% useless because you can sell it at Barnabas' for a good amount of gold. But you'd be way happier to generate Long Sting or even Black Thumb at this point, because they are excellent early weapons.
Once again, how is "it's probably better than whatever else you have at experience level 1" a relevant or sensible standard to justify their inclusion in the game and their status as legendary items?

12-23-2012 07:06 PM
Ancient Member
The only thing you need to "justify" the inclusion of an item as an artifact in the game is that its distinctive features allow you construct a story around them - a legend. They don't have to adhere to any kind of objective power standard.

12-23-2012 07:47 PM
Senior Member
Everything can be useful to the right character. And it's more important to have a good story and setting than for all items/artifacts to be useful to all characters.

I've had lots of characters read from the black tome--having a small number of good spells in the early game is often worth a corruption or three. It's a choice not much different from eating Keethrax, or drinking from pools hoping to get a good intrinsic.

My current character (ratling CK) found the Silver Key in an undead vault on D:2. It's been very helpful, don't forget that you can also lock any door with it when you need some privacy!

And personally, even if they're not as powerful as the missile launchers, I'm always happy to find thunderstroke or true aim. I just think they're cool, and I love hitting strong monsters with them to soften them up before melee.

Some of the others you mention, I haven't had the occasion to use. The problem is that by the time you find them, you've probably already found one of the 4d or 5d weapons like a mace of destruction or a X of mayhem/devastation. And once you find one of those, there's little reason to deviate from the weapon/shield track. At least for me... some people get a lot of mileage out of 2H weapons, but I like to play jack-of-all-trades classes.

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