Spellbook RNG
issueid=4877 08-05-2017 12:16 AM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by 4b5urd: 3
Spellbook RNG
Wizards can get extremely different spellbooks each playthrough

Wizards have a lot of randomness in their starting books. They do always get a bolt spell, so at least they aren't SOL (at least not right away), but not all bolt spells are made equal. You can start with anything from Acid Bolt and Revelation to Magic Missile, Light, and Invisibilty! I've been playing a lot of Mist Elven Wizards recently, and even with their superhuman levels of Mana and Willpower, I rarely get enough PP to cast Acid Bolt twice without relying on PP regen, which is really slow for the first one or two levels before you can max Concentration; this problem would be magnified for other Wizards starting with Acid Bolt since they will have much less starting PP due to lower Mana and Willpower scores. So what I propose is that Wizards always start with Magic Missile, maybe add one or two other possibilities like Fire Bolt or Frost Bolt for this slot, but Magic Missile is particularly interesting because no monster is immune to it (though they can shrug it off) and it bounces, something I used to curse for the chance of hitting myself, but now really enjoy because of the cool trick shots I can do with it. The second and/or third spellbook can still be highly randomized, although level 1 PCs probably should not get spells like Magic Map, Teleportation, or Invisibility in their starting books, all of which I have gotten at least once. Maybe limit the second spellbook to Light, Darkness, Knock, Magic Key, or an offense spell.
Issue Details
Issue Number 4877
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Windows 10
Status Suggested
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM r60
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 0
Votes against this feature 7
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




08-05-2017 07:23 AM
Senior Member
That seems like a terrible idea. Half of the fun of rolling a new wizard is being surprised by what spells you get and figuring out how to get through the early game with them. Removing that level of randomness and excitement just makes the game less interesting or fun.

Also, wizards are already the easiest class in the game. The one thing that balances this class (and IMO, makes them interesting to play at all) is their early games can be difficult and require creative thinking to survive. I.e, if you start with acid bolt you can be flinging them left and right, so maybe you need to corral monsters and line them up to take them out with one (very powerful) shot of the spell instead of loads of magic missile...

Giving wizards guaranteed Magic Missile starting out just removes that early game challenge. Or in other words, just makes a someone boring class even more boring.

08-05-2017 07:53 AM
Junior Member
Those are fair points, but ultimately, our arguements boil down to opinion and preference. I would rather the randomness by reduced, you see it as something of a wildcard or balancing lever for the class. There is truth to both sides of the arguement. More than anything, this is just a pet peeve of mine, hence me giving it the lowest rating on importance.

08-05-2017 05:41 PM
Member
No. More randomness rather than less. I often see "clustering" in the drops of spell books that doesn't seem normal. I'd like that to be gotten rid of.

08-05-2017 06:19 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by 4b5urd
Those are fair points, but ultimately, our arguements boil down to opinion and preference. I would rather the randomness by reduced, you see it as something of a wildcard or balancing lever for the class. There is truth to both sides of the arguement. More than anything, this is just a pet peeve of mine, hence me giving it the lowest rating on importance.
I always thought the need to state "well that's just your opinion" in discussions like this to be sort of absurd. Like, literally any reply to this thread is of course going to be an opinion since we're not arguing about something factual but rather about how we think things should be. Why does it matter? The point is for me to convince you (and/or others) that my opinion is the superior one. :)

That being said, I think if you're trying to reduce or remove randomness from ADOM you're missing the entire point of the game, or Roguelikes in general. They're about navigating a world that is different every time you play it with a different set of equipment, and learning how to win using your intellect and understanding of the game's rules to use the equipment you have at the time and the environment you find yourself in to win. The (relatively) unpredictable nature of the game, combined with the fact that every game is unique, means that you face a fresh challenge every time.

It's a fundamentally different style of play. With games with (mostly) static worlds, like, say, the Dark Souls games, the point is to become better and better at understanding the game mechanics and handling set challenges that you eventually understand the game world well enough to beat it. With games like ADOM, where the game is different each play through, the point is to become better at innovating and thinking outside of the box, and using the tools you have in new and unexpected ways. It's not about having the exact same character trying the exact same challenges every time, its about overcoming new challenges with a new character every time. If you give wizards the default "kill everything" spell guaranteed, then you dramatically reduce the complexity of the early game for wizards.

That's not an argument for randomness for the sake of randomness, mind you, it's an argument for randomness judiciously applied to a certain situation in order to make the game more interesting and complex. ADOM is pretty good about mixing randomness with static content, IMO. This is one situation where the randomness is very much by design, and removing it would make the game worse.

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