Removing need for Clean Ears and Wipe Face
issueid=4072 11-22-2015 01:23 PM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Grey: 58
Removing need for Clean Ears and Wipe Face
Get rid of Clean Ears and Wipe Face - make effects temporary instead

Currently two keybindings stick out sorely from ADOM's interface - Clean Ears and Wipe Face. They exist purely for two rare circumstances of effects on the player (waxed ears and muddy face). To me they're an example of bad interface design - throwing in new bindings for the hell of it. For a new player they add to the keybind-learning overload.

Fixing this has an easy solution. Make the beeswaxed ears and muddy face effects temporary instead of permanent-until-removed. So waxed ears last ~200 turns, muddy face ~20 turns. No need for a special command to clear them.
Issue Details
Issue Number 4072
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM r64 (v2.0.3)
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 9
Votes against this feature 12
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




11-23-2015 01:11 AM
Ancient Member
Big no on this. These two actions are one of those little things that make ADOM unique, even if they only have a single situation in the entire game where they are necessary.

11-23-2015 10:23 AM
Ancient Member
Merge them into one command "refresh yourself" which will automatically clear mud and wax, give +1 Ap for 1d100 turns but have a 1/100 chance to poke yourself in the eye for 1d2 points of damage that can kill you with a unique message.

On a serious note, I'm against touching the wax, because when I smith in DT, mine on other levels or read books in the Library, I plug my ears to reduce the message spam.

11-23-2015 10:45 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by auricbond
This is all superfluous, since two perfectly good reasons for the two commands existing already exist. I'm still waiting to hear why people have a problem with it. I've presented two possible ones but don't know which it is. All I hear is "Oh it's silly to have a specialized command". Why?
When I face the problem I usually trying to think like a PC. Of course with a bit limited possibilities due to gameplay. E.g. I can't jump over a trap just because there is no command to jump in ADOM. To solve any kind of problem I consider all commands I usually use: apply skill, cast a spell, use an item, use an ability, interact with monster and so on.
To resolve these two issues I have to look for a solution not from PC point of view but from player point of view. E.g. " I got the problem. Let's check list of ADOM keybinginds and find something suitable." This turns player out from the game.

Second reason to remove is generally related just due to wipe face. If your face isn't clean - just wipe it instantly. The only application I see is a challenge to play the whole game blinded by mud :).

Quote Originally Posted by _Ln_
Merge them into one command "refresh yourself" which will automatically clear mud and wax, give +1 Ap for 1d100 turns but have a 1/100 chance to poke yourself in the eye for 1d2 points of damage that can kill you with a unique message.
Seriously? Ap reduces corruption so that game would encourage players to refresh their PC every 100 turns unless on low HP. I already imagine myself refreshing several times per level and don't wanna this change.

11-23-2015 12:07 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by auricbond
Where things only have one use (like bridge building) I think keeping it in the game is the better choice as then you have the recourse of thinking of new ways to justify its existence (although I think one use is good enough, it's just that two or more is even better). Why is that better than removing it? Because it makes the game richer.
You know what? I completely agree. Adding more content in to better justify a current action is far preferable to removing it for redundancy when the game is so detailed and beautiful already.
It'd be a bit of a shame to lose the problem-solving aspects of these two little pieces of content. They're esoteric and obtuse, sure, but they're also hinted at by the Minstrel and through cookie messages, and they're charming little additions to ADOM.

I agree with Al-Khwarizmi that a turn timer on the beeswax just won't work around the Banshee. The use of the clean 'E'ars command is both well-foreshadowed by that point, and will come naturally to someone who has already intentionally plugged their ears.
Deafness is also useful at other times, especially when it's optional. Concentrated study seems to really be a big thing for older players.

The wipe 'F'ace command is a little less directly useful but even so, being blind for ~20 turns at random in a dungeon is a major setback. I'd suggest instead to keep the command and implement a ~20 turn duration for mud blindness. That way, if a player really can't work out what to do, they still get their eyesight back eventually, but at an ongoing -1 to Ap until they wash. If that's implemented then I also suggest Swimming should clean the mud off and increase Ap in the same way.

For wiping your 'F'ace, maybe we should implement a few additional uses.
How about a monster type added or altered so that it spits globs of mud or slime - not damaging, but they blind the PC unless they take a turn to wipe it back off? Slimes would work, for one.
How about an additional random trap that splurts mud or slime or similar all over the player?
Or altering the existing Acid floor trap so that occasionally "it even gets in your eyes!" and needs to be wiped back out to restore sight?
ixi's idea about the corruption would work as well.
Basically, give it a couple - just a couple - more infrequent uses and it suddenly becomes a helpful part of the game.

11-23-2015 03:42 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
Seriously? Ap reduces corruption so that game would encourage players to refresh their PC every 100 turns unless on low HP. I already imagine myself refreshing several times per level and don't wanna this change.
Ap does not affect current corruption rate, only increases corruption effect threshold. So it's pointless to do it all the time, since all you can achieve is giving you extra 50 turns before the corruption will activate.

Also, it's a semi-joke solution, but I'm starting to like it.

Even better, if you don't refresh yourself in a long time, you will risk getting sick because of all the dirt and chunks of monsters all over you (imagine Dragon Age).

However, the dirtier you are, the higher chance you have to induce fear in humanoid monsters because you look batshit crazy (especially considering chunks of monsters).

You can create so many new mechanics around this dirt thing!

11-26-2015 05:00 AM
Senior Member
Better solution: add additional 2 inventory slots - Dirty Face and Wax in Ears - that appear only once you plug the ears or get a ball of mud in your face. And you'll be able to remove it via the inventory command (for ears - after confirmation).

11-26-2015 12:08 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by SinsI
Better solution: add additional 2 inventory slots - Dirty Face and Wax in Ears - that appear only once you plug the ears or get a ball of mud in your face. And you'll be able to remove it via the inventory command (for ears - after confirmation).
Awesome. That's the one solution that would remove hassle of looking for unknown commands but would preserve functionality in game. Actually when I was upvoting and supporting this idea I was thinking about removing commands but with a possibility to preserve these actions.

11-26-2015 12:18 PM
Junior Member
Not related to this directly but there should be a lot more ways to become deaf and mute.

Like cursed headgear causing deaf + mute and preventing spellcasting & talking. Side-effects to herbs etc.

11-26-2015 12:40 PM
Junior Member
Hmmmm.. I don't like the idea of adding to the inventory for the sake of two things that are so rare. a) it's a stretch to call them items that are 'worn' b) I think it will make a mess of the core inventory layout to squeeze them in there.

Just leave them as they are, so those who are in the know can remove them the way they always did. And for those who can't work it out, let the player 'recover' from the condition after a while. Or after walking into things, or being hit a few times, it just falls off/out.

11-26-2015 01:14 PM
Ancient Member
I think it was a joke of the creator, let it be.

11-26-2015 02:37 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by auricbond
What I want to know is why having 1 feature-justification for a function is not enough and warrants removing the feature and the function. If the reason is too many keybindings, there are ways to fix that whilst preserving the feature and the function. If it's just upsetting people with OCD (not a flip remark--I can see how it might do that), well, you can't please everyone, but there are ways around that too without dispensing with the feature.
Not quite OCD (I've managed 16 years of playing ADOM without it driving me insane) but it is a little bit of interface polish in my eyes. One of many little things ADOM can do to make its crazy interface less obtuse for new players. The z/Z thing being discussed is another example of small polish, and it was discussion over that which made me think of these silly commands.

It's very minor, of course, hence the low priority rating given.

11-26-2015 02:49 PM
Junior Member
@grey ..I was trying to think of how to explain to auricbond that it's worth considering. You've done it far more concisely than I could. :) ..I can understand the humour in its presence. If it's left in as-is, but the effect later disappears, for whatever reason .. that may be a nice simple way to keep it in, without requiring players to find those obscure key-bindings.

11-26-2015 03:40 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Jokke77
Not related to this directly but there should be a lot more ways to become deaf and mute.

Like cursed headgear causing deaf + mute and preventing spellcasting & talking. Side-effects to herbs etc.
I just imagined autocursing item which blinds and mutes! No way to read scroll or uncursing, no way to cast remove curse spell :)

11-29-2015 04:53 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by tkoyah
@grey ..I was trying to think of how to explain to auricbond that it's worth considering. You've done it far more concisely than I could. :) ..I can understand the humour in its presence. If it's left in as-is, but the effect later disappears, for whatever reason .. that may be a nice simple way to keep it in, without requiring players to find those obscure key-bindings.
Basically just this -- plus a few additional in-game uses for each command to make them less situational and more actually useful. And possibly only for the wipe-blindness because people do like using wax to read.

11-29-2015 05:57 PM
Ancient Member
Let's remember that if anyone hardcore enough wants to pull a Soirana and play another "blind man" challenge (after the inability to drop orbs in the D:48 is fixed), facial mud is the only way to do it.

11-29-2015 08:10 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
Let's remember that if anyone hardcore enough wants to pull a Soirana and play another "blind man" challenge (after the inability to drop orbs in the D:48 is fixed), facial mud is the only way to do it.
That the only reason to keep mud effect (not commands) as is. And it makes perfect sense. I'd love even to see a guaranteed room somewhere to make the start easier.

11-30-2015 03:44 AM
Junior Member
Ooooh .. *if* we make the mud something that will fall off over time, so the wipe-face command isn't strictly necessary .. we could then make the game a bit meaner. eg: if you have poison hands, you wipe your face, and then the mud is gone, but now your eyes are blinded by the poison. That seems to be the kind of revolving mean-ness the RNG absolutely delights in. :)

11-30-2015 06:44 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by tkoyah
if you have poison hands, you wipe your face, and then the mud is gone, but now your eyes are blinded by the poison.
That would be a nice detail. There could be a Dexterity roll to see if you get blinded by poison or merely wipe your face successfully.

11-30-2015 09:19 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by tkoyah
Ooooh .. *if* we make the mud something that will fall off over time, so the wipe-face command isn't strictly necessary .. we could then make the game a bit meaner. eg: if you have poison hands, you wipe your face, and then the mud is gone, but now your eyes are blinded by the poison. That seems to be the kind of revolving mean-ness the RNG absolutely delights in. :)
Cool! :) And if grown thorns - damage yourself (unique death message - pierced his eye with his thorn when wiping his face). If ChAoS hands - corrupt yerself. Increase time required to wipe your face to 10 turns or 20 turns if wearing any gauntlets. Triple time if PC has 12 eyes total.

And under very rare conditions you'll have to think before wiping your face and get a chance to have a new type of YASD.

Edit: But to make this really worthy to implement there must be monsters with mud attack (e.g. all monsters with acid breath, jellies, probably some undeads like corpse fiends, ghuls and zombies, earth elementals, giant slugs, clay statues), probably traps (there are suggestions on this forum) and even decay corruption could trigger it. Currently effect is sooo rare... I use this command once per several games.

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