Difficulty settings
issueid=1240 09-10-2012 01:42 PM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by Aielyn: 17
Difficulty settings
Add a difficulty setting to the game

I've noticed that there are generally two camps when it comes to discussing various ideas for "game balancing" on these boards. One camp insists that the game needs to be made harder, closing various non-bug exploits and increasing difficulty in various other ways, in order to improve the game. The other camp insists that the game needs to be toned down a little, providing new ways to make things easier and intentionally turning non-bug exploits into truly legitimate and intended effects.

As such, I'm suggesting a new "difficulty setting" for ADoM. Now, I know what you're thinking: "That's a lot of work to do, and not a lot of gain"... which is why I'm proposing an approach that is minimalist in nature.

Three things will happen, with the specifics depending on the difficulty setting, which would come in three different flavours: Novice mode, Normal mode, and ChAoS mode.

1. The first thing that happens is a modification to a few numbers. Of these, the most important one is the hidden Luck stat. In Novice mode, a positive modifier is applied to this stat, increasing luck across the board. The exact amount would be up for discussion and/or experimentation, but I'm thinking that roughly the effect of being Lucky and Blessed combined should be enough to make it worth it. To be clear, that's on top of regular modifiers (so a Novice can still be Lucky, Blessed, have Fate Smiles, etc). Other than the Luck stat, the character would get an extra skill increase at each level, an extra talent at character creation, and, say, an extra point to each stat at character creation.

Normal mode wouldn't touch these numbers relative to the current game, of course. In ChAoS mode, mostly the exact opposite would occur - the character would have an intrinsically lower Luck stat (by roughly the same amount as the increase for Novices), they would get one fewer skill increase, and fewer talents (minimum one) and one less to each stat at character creation.

2. Next, certain techniques and tactics would be made active or inactive. In almost all of these cases, the changes would be applied according to modifications already being requested, with a flag allowing the original version to be kept. For instance, if pickpocketing were to be "fixed" to make it so that it's harder to do, gives lower-quality results and is mostly only useful against powerful creatures, and failure adds a risk of berserking, then the flag would be inserted here - in Novice mode, pickpocketing would operate as it currently does. In Normal mode, it might skew towards lower-quality items when pickpocketing lower-type creatures (like a goblin), while in ChAoS mode, berserking would be added, as would further conditions on use.

Few of the changes in this category would occur without being part of existing modifications to the code - that is, the majority of the difficulty-based modifications would occur only where changes are already being made to the code, and thus shouldn't require too much extra work (adding flags while in the process of making the changes shouldn't take much).

3. Finally, certain locations and game features would be made available or unavailable, depending on the setting. For instance, Novice Mode should disable all endings except the normal ending, and perhaps a special simplified version of the Original Chaos God ending (to disable the other endings, just disable some of the quests necessary to complete them). Similarly, ChAoS mode should make every challenge option open... but it might also remove features that make the game easier. An example of this could be making Cooked Lizards inedible (or removing them entirely).

Some more examples of possible modifications for the two new difficulties... SMC could be given a much gentler increase in difficulty with level for Novices, while ChAoS mode could close the back entrance to the HMV (or make it harder to access, by moving it to a different location). Novices might have access to the Pyramid up to level 20, while in ChAoS mode, the game could require entrance while exactly level 13. Teleportation restrictions could be lifted on certain locations in Novice Mode, while they could be further imposed on extra locations in ChAoS mode (in fact, perhaps just add a 10% chance that any particular level is generated with teleportation restriction, just to make it a bit random). The Background Corruption timelimit could be removed for Novice Mode, and made just 45 days for ChAoS Mode. Blessed fireproof blankets could be immune to fire-based destruction in Novice Mode. ChAoS Mode could add a 'h'andle somewhere below the Eternal Guardian, providing access to the Tomb of the High Kings (thereby making it necessary to pass a hostile Eternal Guardian at least once). Novice mode could prevent cats in the Arena, while ChAoS mode could guarantee at least one cat.

In short, the idea is to make a mode that is significantly less difficult, and a mode that is of severe difficulty, with relatively minimal work. Changes should be possible with relatively few alterations to the code, comparable to implementing the starsigns. That is, at least, my goal with how I structured the idea - to make the changes sweeping, but minimal. I am assuming that, for instance, luck is coded in a smart manner, not requiring that the same code be copied to every part of the code that is impacted by luck (that is, that luck is handled by a function, and not inline every time).
Issue Details
Issue Number 1240
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Other (please specify)
Status Implemented
Priority 10 - Lowest
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 3
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 1
Votes against this feature 9
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




09-10-2012 01:59 PM
Ancient Member
I see no reason to change ADOM's difficulty or make it adjustable, and it could lead to arguments about not having "really" won a game until you've done so in the highest level available. As if it wasn't, well, difficult enough already.

If you want to make the game more appealing to newcomers who find death frustrating, it would be better to add a exploration mode that grants the ability to refuse death (and nothing else). In fact, the code for this is already there, you just have no way to turn it on without memory hacking.

PS: I've always liked to think you sort of choose the game's difficulty when picking race and class, but always end up dealing with ChAoS Mode eventually :)

09-10-2012 02:20 PM
Senior Member
Not sure if this is really necessary.
As Anon said, difficulty depends on race/class. Mindcrafter is way harder than priest or archer.

09-10-2012 02:56 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by anon123
I see no reason to change ADOM's difficulty or make it adjustable, and it could lead to arguments about not having "really" won a game until you've done so in the highest level available. As if it wasn't, well, difficult enough already.
The easiest way to address this is to simply attach the difficulty to the name of the "win". In other words, you would have a "regular Novice win" for when a Novice closes the gate and leaves the Drakalor Chain. And let's be honest, some people would probably assert that you haven't *really* won in ADoM until you've gotten an Ultimate ending. So I don't accept the argument that adding alternate difficulty modes would lead to arguments.

Note that the idea is that the difficulty setting would be different from race/class combinations, in that the latter involves changing the way you have to play, whereas the former changes how directly difficult the game is.

More notably, though, the idea is that a difficulty setting would allow both sides of the argument over how the game should be "balanced" to be satisfied, and in the process, the game can be made significantly HARDER for people who routinely beat the game. Finishing the game in ChAoS mode would be an achievement of its own, let alone getting one of the "higher" endings in that mode. Meanwhile, a mode for those who are new to the game would let them experience everything properly (including the fear of death), while still making the game significantly less intimidating. You want novices to feel like they're still accomplishing things, not like they're having their hands held at every step - so just disabling death, in my opinion, fails the most important test.

If people don't like the idea of this being applied to the game as we're used to, how about adding it to ADoM Deluxe for Steam? That's where such a "Novice Mode" would be of most use, while also providing the opportunity to turn ChAoS mode into the sort of challenge that will bring in serious gamers.

09-10-2012 03:27 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn
Note that the idea is that the difficulty setting would be different from race/class combinations, in that the latter involves changing the way you have to play, whereas the former changes how directly difficult the game is.
Well, the former would also change the way that you play the game, as you've currently envisioned it. If there are any major balance changes to the game, then players on novice mode are stuck with the older versions that may look very different from the newer implementations, and may, in fact either be quite a bit worse than the newer implementation, or may have a significantly different look/feel to the newer implementation. I think it would be quite disorienting for players to learn that there are two different pick pockets skills that have very different functionality and usage depending on difficulty level, for example.

I don't disagree with the idea of difficulty levels in principle, but, if implemented, I think it makes sense to keep the changes as relatively simple as possible to keep the game consistent. For instance, Novice players would get a hidden +Fate (stackable with all other intrinsics), cHaOs players get a hidden +Doom or +Curse. Or, as was suggested above, novice players get an exploration mode that allows them to cheat death--let's be honest: this is probably the easiest way to make the game more accessible; not everyone has the patience to kill a hundred characters before they manage to get to level 10.

09-10-2012 03:47 PM
Ancient Member
All of that sounds like substantionally more hassle than it's worth; especially keeping the various proposed differences straight and balancing all game locations for each of the settings.

ADOM is hard enough to keep hardcore players engaged for a long time, and quite some time after that with self-imposed challenges. For beginners, I really think the current approach - starting them off with greater resources in the form of a powerful r/c combination - is perfectly fine. (And no, I don't think that's an inferior solution. Do note that you'll have to "change the way you play" to transition from lower to higher difficulty as well, it's called "getting better".)

The main aspect of what makes ADOM so fiendishly hard is the finality of death. If you get right down to it, it's much easier to die in most other mainstream games than it is in ADOM. You're almost expected to fail at something and kick the bucket, in many cases; That's why they have savegames. And checkpoints, save points, level replay and so on. Once you get rid of permanent death in ADOM and add a savegame management feature, it's not much harder than Diablo. (Much more complex and deeper, though.)

I know that there's been voices on both sides of the argument - but you can't please everyone. If the voices that say it's too easy are just as loud as the ones that say it's too hard - that seems to me perfect evidence that the difficulty is just right. I feel that rather than focus on making the game "easier" or "harder", we should make it better.

09-10-2012 04:03 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Aileyn
I've noticed that there are generally two camps when it comes to discussing various ideas for "game balancing" on these boards. One camp insists that the game needs to be made harder, closing various non-bug exploits and increasing difficulty in various other ways, in order to improve the game.
I don't think your interpretation of most on the people in that camp is correct. For example, I'm in favour of removing exploits and scumming techniques, but the goal is not increasing difficulty, but making the game less boring/more interesting. And the latter doesn't imply the former: I'd be happy if, to counter the extra difficulty added by removing exploits, measures making the game easier were implemented. For example, make each Casino gamble take one turn and corrupt the player, but lower the price of items throughout the game or increase gold generation. Or nerf pick pockets, but increase item generation. Etc.

Of course I only speak for myself, but my impression is that most of the people in that camp are in the same boat. I don't think many people think that ADOM is too easy. Many think it's too scummy, though.

09-10-2012 04:19 PM
Senior Member
I say no. Keep it simple. I agree that race/class combos are a type of difficulty setting. Playing a Troll Barbarian is much easier than a Hurthling Thief. They both just run into stuff to kill it, but the Troll is gonna have a far easier early game (the hard part). If we had an "explore mode" I'd be okay with that, I guess. I've used ADOMBot for that. I think tiles will do a lot to get new players involved. The difficulty could be tweaked (mostly by fixing exploits) but I think it's fine, as is. I'd like to toughen up the late game, as it's kind of a formality in its current state.

09-10-2012 05:41 PM
Ancient Member
This requires too much coding to be worth it. However for the ADOM Deluxe version there could be an "easy start" mode that gives you some extra basic armour, more starting HP and a higher luck score, or something along those lines. That would be a simple and effective thing to implement.

And really, your first post is way too long to bother reading. If you want suggestions to be taken seriously I think you should be more succinct. Thomas won't have the time to read through all this :P

09-11-2012 12:45 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi
I don't think your interpretation of most on the people in that camp is correct. For example, I'm in favour of removing exploits and scumming techniques, but the goal is not increasing difficulty, but making the game less boring/more interesting. And the latter doesn't imply the former: I'd be happy if, to counter the extra difficulty added by removing exploits, measures making the game easier were implemented. For example, make each Casino gamble take one turn and corrupt the player, but lower the price of items throughout the game or increase gold generation. Or nerf pick pockets, but increase item generation. Etc.

Of course I only speak for myself, but my impression is that most of the people in that camp are in the same boat. I don't think many people think that ADOM is too easy. Many think it's too scummy, though.
Admittedly, I was exaggerating the situation significantly, although there have been a few that have complained about the game being easy.

The main idea behind the ChAoS mode is to add a new "challenge" mode for people who have pretty much mastered the game. It was about taking the idea of the "easy" mode, and turning it on its head, mostly because the modifications are already being made.

Anyway, even if people don't like the idea of functional changes, I think a Novice mode (and a ChAoS mode) would make the game more enjoyable for more people. So here's what I'm suggesting as a scaled back version: the two modes modify luck (increasing for Novices and decreasing in ChAoS mode), they bump up or down the starting stats, they increase or decrease the number of skill increases on each level up... and I'm thinking that, for Novices, perhaps healing rate could be buffed and satiation decay rate reduced, and they could receive a few nice uncommon item types as starting equipment - such as a set of bracers with something like [+2,+2].

All of it is just simple modifiers to basic numbers and a few "at the start of the game" alterations, so it should be easily implemented. People can talk about "difficulty settings are created by race/class choices", but people who are new to the game aren't going to know which combinations are easy or hard (and lets be honest, most aren't going to carefully read the whole manual), are going to struggle even when playing the easiest combinations, and, even with tile support, are going to feel overwhelmed. Anything that can be done to easily tone the game down in order to make the experience a little easier would be helpful in attracting new players, especially on services like Steam.

09-11-2012 12:47 PM
Ancient Member
The manual could implement some recommendations as to which starting combinations make for an easier or harder game - that's a good point.

09-11-2012 01:13 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
The manual could implement some recommendations as to which starting combinations make for an easier or harder game - that's a good point.
As I said, a lot of new players aren't going to read through the manual. "RTFM" works well in a community like this, but it's a bad idea if you want your game to go more mainstream.

If the game itself offered a "recommendation" system for new players, that might work. Something as simple as providing some preset combinations that are considered "easy" would probably be the best approach - and if those presets could then be modified if players so wish, then it would also provide a way for players to basically quicklist their favourite combinations.

Meanwhile, I still stand by my statement that, as the game stands, new players are going to struggle even with the easiest combinations.

09-11-2012 01:19 PM
Ancient Member
I seem to remember that in the character selection screen, DCSS (or a past version of it that I played years ago) gave some recomendations of typical R/C combos you can play as a novice. This could be done in ADOM as well.

12-19-2014 05:37 PM
Senior Member
Given the new adjustable gameplay settings on ADOM Deluxe, perhaps this should be marked as implemented (or rejected, depending on how you look at it).

12-26-2015 12:44 PM
The Creator
IMGO the latest versions of ADOM Deluxe gracefully handle this request by introducing various modes and customization dials for things like corruption and stuff.

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