Saving Khelavaster
issueid=1930 02-11-2013 07:06 PM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by plllizzz9: 14
Saving Khelavaster

Talking to Khelavaster while holding an AoLS in the backpack should provoke a prompt, same as Bart's reaction to golden gladius. By mere accident, I 'c'hatted to him while holding one and it seems pretty unfair that a large amount of effort and time can be wasted by mere misclick, Ultra Endings are already frustrating enough, honestly
Issue Details
Issue Number 1930
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 3
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 11
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 6
Votes against this feature 4
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




02-11-2013 10:18 PM
Ancient Member
I would agree as an anti-frustration measure, but the current system makes sense from a realism point of view (how does Bart know you're carrying the gladius? Is your pack transparent?).

02-11-2013 10:44 PM
Senior Member
Even if you don't actually get the prompt, it would be good if something Khelavaster says, either at the start or the end of his monologue, is adjusted if you have an AoLS amongst your equipment. It can serve as a hint that you might be able to save him - something that probably won't occur to a lot of people who aren't heavily into the game to begin with.

Something like "I sense an aura of life emanating from somewhere near you. There is an item that could have saved me, if only I could have obtained one."

02-12-2013 05:52 AM
Senior Member
How about a prompt only if you're wearing the amulet? I think this is like the Yriggs/Jharod interaction--not too hard to figure out, but also not something the player should be spoon-fed.

02-12-2013 06:06 AM
Ancient Member
Very much against that.
1. Fairness is not found in Adom anyway.
2. The possibility to save Khelavaster at all seems so remote to an unspoiled player, that you would take away all the triumph from those who find it out. Or would you want a prompt: "Do you really want to attack the mad carpenter instead of trying to find some other way?"
3. It takes away the feel of free exploration in favour of a more streamlined game.

02-12-2013 08:28 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Evil Knievel
Very much against that.
1. Fairness is not found in Adom anyway.
2. The possibility to save Khelavaster at all seems so remote to an unspoiled player, that you would take away all the triumph from those who find it out. Or would you want a prompt: "Do you really want to attack the mad carpenter instead of trying to find some other way?"
3. It takes away the feel of free exploration in favour of a more streamlined game.
I agree. Saving Khelavaster is a puzzle for unspoiled players. With this change, it would stop being a puzzle.

02-12-2013 08:51 AM
Ancient Member
There's a very thin line between puzzle and hassle.
I think perhaps the original suggestion is too straightforward but something more subtle could be a good idea.
A cookie message perhaps or a minstrel song, but not more.

I always loved ADoM for not guiding the player by the hand like most games do so I wouldn't want to make saving Khelavaster too easy, but without a large amount of spoilage and lots of dead chars, there's just no way to figure out how to save him.
Which might very well be the purpose - only after playing many chars can one finally discover how to save Khelly, maybe by saving himself with the amulet in the first place, as was in my case. I never knew how exactly were they supposed to save life until I wore one by accident and died.

02-13-2013 06:21 AM
Ancient Member
I agree with the suggestion. The game should discourage spoilers and unfairness. This isn't a puzzle, it's an obscurity.

02-13-2013 06:32 AM
Senior Member
I am against the change and my vote reflects that, but were it to be implemented, I think the new behavior should be triggered only if the PC is wearing the amulet (identified or not) and Khelavaster should mention something and then die anyway. Then the player can try to give him one the next goaround. That is if the mad minstrel's hints aren't deemed enough of a hint in the right direction.

The "inconsistency" regarding Bart can be explained away. Khelavaster is in a weakened state so he cannot notice the magic emanating from the amulet if it's in your backpack. He can only recognize the item if it's up close. Bart, on the other hand, spends his days drinking and talking to anybody who will listen about his days in the arena, so he would be the first person to catch wind of the rumors about the PC becoming the new champion, and then he would keep his eyes peeled for it upon talking to you.

02-13-2013 02:19 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by aerol
The "inconsistency" regarding Bart can be explained away. Khelavaster is in a weakened state so he cannot notice the magic emanating from the amulet if it's in your backpack. He can only recognize the item if it's up close. Bart, on the other hand, spends his days drinking and talking to anybody who will listen about his days in the arena, so he would be the first person to catch wind of the rumors about the PC becoming the new champion, and then he would keep his eyes peeled for it upon talking to you.
Well, reputation does spread fast in this game. NPCs can know if you're good or evil just by looking at you.

02-13-2013 02:36 PM
Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
I agree with the suggestion. The game should discourage spoilers and unfairness. This isn't a puzzle, it's an obscurity.
I agree with this. It's not a puzzle when there are no clues hinting as to what you need to do. It's unfair to expect newer players to figure this out unspoiled because nothing else in the game will repeat this behavior.

There are a lot more things that probably fall into this obscure category as well.

02-13-2013 03:07 PM
Ancient Member
Honestly I don't think the puzzle is so hard... I did figure it out unspoiled years ago. Good guy who dies as soon as you talk to him, amulet that makes you revive right when you die. Sounds like a good fit.

But anyway, if you think the puzzle is too hard, I think the best solution would be to drop some more hints, rather than to remove it entirely (which is what this suggestion amounts to).

02-13-2013 03:21 PM
Senior Member
Agreed with Al-Khwarizmi.

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