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Tweak weapon skill stats

01-15-2013 09:52 AM

Grey

Ancient Member

Number of reported issues by Grey: 58

Tweak weapon skill stats

Make weapon skills more distinct + balanced

This is relating to the discussion about polearms: http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1752

Many weapon skill spreads are identical or very close to each other. It means that if anything stands out (polearms) it gets easily preferred. It would be nice to see a bit more variety to more of the weapon skills so that they are distinguished in different ways. It would mean different bonuses based on weapon choice, and make investing in a particular type more meaningful.

In the following suggestions I will refer to the Grand Mastery level of to hit, damage and DV adjustments, as this is easiest to communicate. Green means increase, red means decrease, grey keep the same as it is now. Note that the standard at the moment across the one-handers is around 18/12/6. For easy reference, here are the current stats: http://adomgb.sweb.cz/adomman-G.html#G1

Code:

                    Hit  Dam   DV
Unarmed:            =12, =12, =12 (Fine as is)
Daggers and Knives: +24, -10, = 5
Club/Hammers:       +20, +16, - 4
Maces/flails:       -14, +16, = 6
Swords:             +20, =12, +10
Axes:               =18, +20, = 4
Whips:              =24, -12, =15 (I don't get why it has such a huge damage rating)
Polearms:           =20, -10, =22 (maybe lower DV too)
Two-handers:        =20, =30, +10
Staves:             =20, - 8, +46

Details could perhaps be tweaked a little. Suggestions welcome.

Issue Details

Issue Number 1760

Issue Type Feature

Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)

Category All

Status Suggested

Priority 8

Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 10

Implemented Version (none)

Milestone (none)

Votes for this feature 10

Votes against this feature 1

Attachments 0

Assigned Users (none)

Tags (none)

01-15-2013 10:09 AM

Al-Khwarizmi Al-Khwarizmi is offline

Ancient Member

It is said that whips, in real life, can break bones when used skillfully. I don't know if it's true. What's true and obvious is that whips are totally useless against enemies with armour (or at least with plate armour), that's probably why they weren't used as weapons of war. But this is obviously one of those aspects of a game where realism is harmful... wielding a whip is cool.

I agree with most of your proposal but I think whips should keep their damage... as is being said in other threads, currently whips are rather underused because it's just not worth it most of the time. So they definitely don't need nerfing.

Maybe if other suggestions are heeded and new, better whips are added to the game, then it could make sense to propose some nerfing, but not now.

01-15-2013 10:43 AM

Grey

Ancient Member

Perhaps! But I think the real issue with whips is that they're all easily burned. If there was a higher metal whip people would jump on them.

01-15-2013 12:22 PM

SirTheta

Ancient Member

I'm slightly colorblind, so I can't tell if the Staves bonuses are being decreased (looks like it). While I honestly don't see it making much of a difference since staves aren't used at all now because of how suck-tastic they are, I'm not sure decreasing the bonuses benefits them.

edit: Oh, you included a link to old table, derp :) Maybe your coloring is off for Staves DV? Increasing DV slightly would help, yeah.

01-15-2013 12:38 PM

Grey

Ancient Member

Eep, I fell into the old red/green colourblind trap. I've added +/-/= as distinguishing marks to help.

01-15-2013 03:43 PM

sqrt-1

Junior Member

Currently the standard whips in the game have quite horrible damage ratings (scourge is something like 1d3 + 3) compared to other weapons. I've always assumed that whips are supposed to be a case, where weapon itself quite useless and only becomes deadly on the hands of the true master. (Of course this is not entirely true when special whips are included, but those are very rare). I like the idea of the weapon, where damage is more dependent of the wielder than of the weapon, so I disagree with the reduction of the whips damage bonus.

Otherwise changes seem good (And I agree that pole arms DV could be reduced slightly).

01-15-2013 04:32 PM

Black Mantis Black Mantis is offline

Junior Member

I'm voting up. I particularly like giving daggers/knives a boosted to-hit (they're small and light and therefore fast), and axes a boosted to-damage (there's not many things that can actually withstand an axe blow).

01-15-2013 05:17 PM

shockeroo

Senior Member

Very much like this idea. I think there is still an ongoing problem with polearms rooted in spear and 2-h poles being very different weapons using the same skill, but it would be nice for every weapon to have a distinct profile. For the one-handed weapons, perhaps you could have something like:

Code:

Daggers and Knives: 25, 10,  5  High Hit
Club/Hammers:       20, 15,  5  Hit > Damage
Maces/flails:       15, 20,  5  Damage > Hit
Swords:             14, 14, 12  Balanced
Axes:               10, 25,  5  High Damage
1-H Polearms:       10, 10, 20  High DV

These are just crude numbers for a discussion point, to show what it would be like to give every one-handed weapon type a distinct profile. I've also smoothed the total bonus for each weapon skill to 40 (although that may not be the best way to balance it, as some may be worth more than others...)

01-16-2013 07:35 AM

BenMathiesen BenMathiesen is offline

Senior Member

Staves give +46 DV at grand mastery? That seems a little excessive, better than the eternium tower shield.

01-16-2013 08:36 AM

Al-Khwarizmi Al-Khwarizmi is offline

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by BenMathiesen

Staves give +46 DV at grand mastery? That seems a little excessive, better than the eternium tower shield.

But less than a mere large adamantium shield + orcish spear.

Staves are rather underused, I think they'll do well with some buffing.

01-16-2013 09:24 AM

Grey

Ancient Member

And Grand Mastery is hard to achieve. Compare with the insane damage of two-handers.

01-16-2013 09:51 AM

plllizzz9

Senior Member

I'm for the changes but against the added DV to Twohanders - with the last tweak to strength bonus damage, they are already probably the most powerful weapons around

01-16-2013 12:41 PM

SirTheta

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by BenMathiesen

Staves give +46 DV at grand mastery? That seems a little excessive, better than the eternium tower shield.

Except the part where no one in their right mind uses staves unless they manage to find a higher metal one (rare enough as is) with a good ego (even rarer). Also, with natural variation, that's not necessarily better than just a shield, of which you can sometimes find +16 ones, much less a shield + a weapon.

edit: I see no problem with 2H weapons giving 10 DV at grand mastery. It's pitiful compensation and won't make a huge difference in the scheme of things. addendum: with no weapon or shield skill at all, you can get more DV with just a shield, which is why I don't see it as a problem.

01-17-2013 05:01 PM

Stingray1

Ancient Member

I'm all for reducing the DV from polearms slightly. I have to add though, that if item generation is reduces firmly(by ~70%), the PC will have fewer options. Also one would see more love for certain artifact weapons.

01-17-2013 05:29 PM

Grey

Ancient Member

Item generation has been increased, not reduced.

01-17-2013 05:38 PM

Stingray1

Ancient Member

I realize. I'm merely giving another good reason to reduce it.

01-17-2013 05:42 PM

snowball_ii snowball_ii is offline

Junior Member

I totally second this idea. It it a simply way too add a lot of depth to the game. And give me a reason not to use always polearm+shield.

01-17-2013 06:33 PM

SirTheta

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by Stingray1

Wrong. The easiest way to get a good spear is to milk hill orc encounters.

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