Whips need more variety
issueid=1757 01-15-2013 05:07 AM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Black Mantis: 13
Whips need more variety

It was recently noted during a conversation in a different thread that whip-class weapons in ADOM are essentially useless. This is not because whips are inherently bad -- the weapon skill bonuses for them are impressive and there are a couple of whip types in the game with pretty decent stats. The problem is there are only four distinct varieties of whip in the game. Two of them are virtually useless, and even these are rare -- the two that are actually good for something are almost unheard of. If nothing else, this makes using a character that utilizes whips extremely difficult, since if the weapon is destroyed it is no easy task to replace.

The current whips and their stats:

whip (-4, 1d3)
scourge (-4, 1d3+3)
whip of the snake (-2, 5d2+7), +7 sp, +7 Dx, +poison
whip of slaughtering (-4, 1d30), +critical chance

Seldom will whips of the snake/slaughtering be encountered, which leaves the prospective whip wielder with only two probable options, both of them extremely weak (if they're even lucky enough to happen across those!).

There are a few ways of addressing this, including buffing the existing whips, or making the drops more common, but I'd like to suggest a third method, and that's to introduce more variety.

Currently we have two whips that are really bad, and two that are actually pretty good, but nothing in between. So how about making some new whip types? This would not only make whips more useful, but also more common since there would be more kinds that could be randomly generated.

I would suggest some additions such as follows:

knotted whip (-4, 1d4+1)
weighted whip (-5, 1d4+3)
barbed whip (-4, 1d5+2)
razor-tipped whip (-4, 1d5+4)
heavy scourge (-5, 2d3+3)
lash (-3, 4d2)
iron chain whip (-5, 2d5)
mithril chain whip (-5, 2d5+3)
adamantium chain whip (-5, 2d5+5)
eternium chain whip (-5, 2d5+7)

The extra options would help bring whips into the realm of being a practical weapon choice and also make them more interesting and flavorful as an aesthetic choice.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1757
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 6
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 10
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 14
Votes against this feature 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-15-2013 09:10 AM
Ancient Member
I don't think we need so many as that - they'd outnumber many regular weapon types then. And there's little variety between a 1d5+4 and a 2d3+3 weapon.

Chain whips would be cool, but they'd need to be made very rare so that people don't rely on them like they do with polearms. They should be something special you might find every few games, or that maybe you'd spend a wish on if you really wanted one. I can't help but think the high demand for whips on the forum could turn very negative if they're too frequent in the game.

01-15-2013 10:12 AM
Ancient Member
I like the idea of adding more whips, I think it's necessary. But I also agree with Grey's arguments.

01-15-2013 10:24 AM
Ancient Member
Just 4 metal ones + several artifact ones will be alright. We are already running out of new items.

01-15-2013 12:10 PM
Ancient Member
As _Ln_ says

01-15-2013 12:42 PM
Ancient Member
Metal whip damages should probably go 1d5, 1d5+3, 1d5+5, 2d5+7 to match the progression of other weapon types.

01-15-2013 01:42 PM
Pim Pim is offline
Member
Since whips are currently the only dexterity based weapon, it makes good sense to have a wider variety.

01-15-2013 02:23 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
I don't think we need so many as that - they'd outnumber many regular weapon types then. And there's little variety between a 1d5+4 and a 2d3+3 weapon.
I was more throwing out ideas for some of the possibilities than really suggesting the entire list be implemented (though it would be cool).

Quote Originally Posted by Grey
Chain whips would be cool, but they'd need to be made very rare so that people don't rely on them like they do with polearms. They should be something special you might find every few games, or that maybe you'd spend a wish on if you really wanted one. I can't help but think the high demand for whips on the forum could turn very negative if they're too frequent in the game.
I don't necessarily disagree for any one whip type in particular -- good ones should be rare, yes. But it's the overall rarity of whips in general I was attempting to address, so as long as whips in general become more common, keeping the really good ones hard to come by suits me fine. Right now, the problem is that whips are too rare to be practical. I generally find hundreds of daggers, spears, and axes for every whip. Perhaps a simple way of addressing that would be to make goblin slavemasters drop whips (usually common ones). As far as I know they don't, though the monster memory suggests they should.

Quote Originally Posted by Grey
Metal whip damages should probably go 1d5, 1d5+3, 1d5+5, 2d5+7 to match the progression of other weapon types.
Yeah, you're right, I just glanced at the numbers again. Fair enough.

01-15-2013 02:38 PM
Ancient Member
I never have trouble finding whips myself :/ Finding a *good* whip is another matter entirely, of course.

Slavemasters dropping whips around 5% of the time might be good - you should make a feature request!

01-15-2013 02:38 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Black Mantis
I don't necessarily disagree for any one whip type in particular -- good ones should be rare, yes. But it's the overall rarity of whips in general I was attempting to address, so as long as whips in general become more common, keeping the really good ones hard to come by suits me fine. Right now, the problem is that whips are too rare to be practical. I generally find hundreds of daggers, spears, and axes for every whip. Perhaps a simple way of addressing that would be to make goblin slavemasters drop whips (usually common ones). As far as I know they don't, though the monster memory suggests they should.
That's a good suggestion too.

01-15-2013 04:33 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
Slavemasters dropping whips around 5% of the time might be good - you should make a feature request!
Hmm. I think I'll do that.

01-15-2013 11:23 PM
Senior Member
Can whips be affixed? I can't remember if I've ever seen a whip of mayhem or devastation, for example. If they can, that gives some decent variety.

The first few are redundant with the random +/s and -/s that can occur on weapon stats.

I'd be OK with a chain weapon that trains whip skill.

01-15-2013 11:55 PM
Senior Member
Whips and scourges are affixable.

01-16-2013 01:52 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by BenMathiesen
Can whips be affixed? I can't remember if I've ever seen a whip of mayhem or devastation, for example. If they can, that gives some decent variety.

The first few are redundant with the random +/s and -/s that can occur on weapon stats.

I'd be OK with a chain weapon that trains whip skill.
Yes, I had a whip of devastation Darkforge with a Ratling Duelist in p8... it was really, really nice. Whips are my favorite weapon type (especially with Duelists and the now functioning RoMC) and so I fully support this RFE.

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