More meaningful loot
issueid=1593 12-29-2012 02:25 PM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by szopin: 6
More meaningful loot

You can move this to RFE, I consider tihs a bug, such BIG one in fact that all scumming tactics revole(d) around it. Banshee wail in AF? Need more loot. Gremlin bombing? Need more loot. ID stairhopping? Need more loot.

As we're moving towards Steam version this has to be addressed in one way or another. Killing each and every boring/tiresome/repetitive tactic to get more loot is endless upkeep with no return other than players disconcerned. How about instead of dropping more loot decrease boring loot percentage? Make more interesting items drop more often - problem fixed. No need to stairhop or ID dive 1-3-1-... People come up with solutions (call them scummy who cares) to problems, Creator can fix it with a few tweaks, instead of banning next reincarnation of 'fix'
Issue Details
Issue Number 1593
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Fixed
Priority 5 - Medium
Affected Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 8
Fixed Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 9
Milestone (none)
Users able to reproduce bug 4
Users unable to reproduce bug 7
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-30-2012 02:29 PM
Ancient Member
This is a feature request, not a bug report.

Quote Originally Posted by St. Viers
THe problem is that people who want to grind/scum still will.
As long as there don't exist super efficient methods for it that were not intended, I think this is not a problem. If you're willing to grind long enough, you can always find more items. Just go to a cavernous level and kill more monsters. That is fine, in itself. It only hurts the game when someone finds an exploit that the programmer didn't think of, which allows you to get many items very quickly.

By the way I agree that the changes to summoned creatures like rats weren't needed and that the change to pickpockets hurts normal play (especially because of the Yergius quest).

12-30-2012 02:34 PM
Ancient Member
I don't think rats or any 'animal' should carry loot. The pickpocketing nerf isn't that bad in my experience. I just feel that if you want to have Detect traps from the start then play with a R/C that has it.
Other classes should work a bit harder to acquire it or they should have other means past trapped doors, but this thread is about items.
Atleast grindy/greedy players can still use pickpocketing very effectively.

12-30-2012 05:19 PM
Qui Qui is offline
Senior Member
It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Some "questionable" tactics were pointed out to Thomas, he agreed that they were bugs rather than intended features, and he patched them accordingly.

Now, is the game harder because of it? Well, if you regularly used some of the patched things, then most likely yes. Otherwise not. Is the game unwinnable because of this? Some YAVPs say that it isn't. Even with those squishy MEs.

The thing that makes ADoM different from other roguelikes is potentially infinite loot/gameplay - after all ID is infinite, and creature generation is infinite too. So potentially you can have all the items you want/need given that you spend enough time on obtaining them.

Personally I am of an opinion that there's nothing wrong with extra loot/stats/etc. But it should not be matter of time/grinding, but rather of risk/reward. What I mean is that getting extra loot is fine, if you have a chance to die horribly for it. The better the loot, the worse the opposition. That's how ADoM should be :).

Now the question would be, how to setup such a thing. Because, how it is now, one could endlessly and with little to no risk grind some level in the ID over and over again. Which isn't much fun, really.

01-08-2013 01:38 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
I don't understand, what items are players grinding for?
Potions of water. Ordinary water. I have bottles full of other potions I have little need for. I have rivers full of water. But I often need to grind the ID to get water inside a bottle in any reasonable quantity. :-P

As for stairhopping, unless you automate it (which would be very scummy), it has built-in limitations such as boredom, finger fatigue, and losing strength to special rooms. I also often find myself not noticing an item until just after hitting <, especially if it's a dark color (like water!). I'll sometimes do it if I'm desperate, but not for long.

01-08-2013 01:53 AM
Ancient Member
What do you need all this water for? I only blessed my eternium two-hander now at lvl 27 day 74 and my 7LB a day or so before and I've been doing just fine. Well not entirely, I'm still grinding for AoLS.

01-08-2013 04:15 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
What do you need all this water for? I only blessed my eternium two-hander now at lvl 27 day 74 and my 7LB a day or so before and I've been doing just fine.
Blessing potions of gain attributes, scrolls of identify, scrolls of uncursing, missiles, blankets, corpses to carry to Guth'Alak, corruption removal items, etc.

Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
I only blessed my eternium two-hander now at lvl 27 day 74 and my 7LB a day or so before and I've been doing just fine.
Well, congratulations. You asked what people were grinding for. Is it possible to win without having much water? Sure. But clearly it's a useful item, that seems like it should be more common than it is (if anything, it should be the conversion into holy water that is harder to come by).

Quote Originally Posted by Stingray1
Well not entirely, I'm still grinding for AoLS.
Heh.

01-08-2013 05:18 AM
Ancient Member
I'm not sure why you'd bless ammo [unless you really didn't want it destroyed or something? still, not much reason], but with the exception of that [though I have blessed some ammo in the past] I always have plenty of holy water for all of those things you just mentioned, whenever I decide to use them. There is really no need to grind for anything in ADoM, and I don't see it as a reason to support this suggestion.

01-08-2013 05:21 AM
Ancient Member
You still get daemon + undead slaying bonus for blessing ammo IIRC.

01-08-2013 05:30 AM
Ancient Member
yup you do. try blessed ammo vs greater molochs it makes a massive difference.

01-08-2013 07:19 AM
Ancient Member
Well, of course, but you don't need much holy water to bless a stack of demon slaying arrows [should you have them before casino; you wouldn't really need to bless more than one stack]. I certainly have plenty of extra holy water in my games, so spending even 4 on 4 stacks [!! not even sure I normally find 4 unblessed stacks of demon/undead slaying in the casino] wouldn't leave me terribly parched [after the casino--where you actually get a lot of <x> slaying ammo and water]. The only way you could really run out of holy water for blessing ammo is if you were doing something really strange, and that's the only thing he blesses that I don't [I also happen to blessed wands of digging (sometimes multiple), potions of healing, potions of increase potential/stat, pickaxes, and quite a bit more, and I never have to go out of my way to get water]

01-08-2013 07:46 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by SirTheta
I'm not sure why you'd bless ammo [unless you really didn't want it destroyed or something? still, not much reason],
Doesn't it make the ammo last longer? Useful for slayers, especially if you don't have that many of an important kind. Or is it only in other roguelikes that it works that way?

In any case, that's just one of many uses. I think I only blessed one stack of ammo (generic slaying quarrels) in my last victory.

Quote Originally Posted by SirTheta
but with the exception of that [though I have blessed some ammo in the past] I always have plenty of holy water for all of those things you just mentioned, whenever I decide to use them.
OK. I don't. Maybe I've just been unlucky -- they do seem to pop up often enough in the ID, just not that often elsewhere.

There is really no need to grind for anything in ADoM, and I don't see it as a reason to support this suggestion.
The suggestion was pretty vague to begin with... I don't think any major changes to item generation are needed (especially since you can still grind the ID if you feel the need -- just not stairhop), but some minor tweaking of item probabilities wouldn't hurt.

01-08-2013 10:17 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Scott Wood
Heh.
Amulet of Live Saving. 3 maces of destruction, 3 pairs of 7 league boots, 50 scrolls of identify, 2 Anvils, elven chain mail, atleast 20 pots of water, if you think this isn't enough items. I'd rather not say. and Khelavaster is still dying.

I only grinded for like a thousand turn in the water cave.

01-09-2013 03:29 PM
The Creator
Quote Originally Posted by szopin
Very true. Best fix would take into account PC race/class combo (sadly don't think TB is planning to spend that much on bugfixing good old ADOM though): But adjectived items (not only weapons) would help all, even beastfighters.
Taking the various combinations into account is a combinatorial nightmare. Given the fact that a random number generated also is in the game, there still would be flukes. So I don't think that this idea is implementable.

01-09-2013 03:33 PM
The Creator
I have increased drop rates by a little less than 10%. That's enough for now.

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