Make Humans a better Newbie Race
issueid=4145 12-07-2015 04:14 PM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by shockeroo: 50
Make Humans a better Newbie Race
I'm getting the impression many newbies pick human fighters...

Following on from http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2992

The implemented change from the last RFE has not made humans any more appealing to my mind - they're still a bit boring and not very good at anything with lower than average starting stats, and fewer skills. I've also seen two Facebook posts from players who have always picked Human Fighters (and who have never got anywhere). Human Fighter was the first game I ever played too, on the assumption it would be simple. This may be less common now that the game active recommends you pick a Dwarven Paladin for a combat character, but clearly some players are persisting in such habits and I suspect some new ones may be doing the same thing.

My preferred solution to both of these things is to give Humans Healing as a starting skill. Healing makes the first few levels MUCH more survivable as well making humans an appealing option for more advanced players who also want to get Herbalism on classes that start with neither (I generally avoid Assassins, Thieves, Fighters etc unless I roll Candle starsign for this reason.)
Issue Details
Issue Number 4145
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 4
Suggested Version ADOM r64 (v2.0.3)
Implemented Version ADOM 2.3.6
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 5
Votes against this feature 10
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-10-2015 02:36 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Blank4u47
Why should they be better than an assassin? If you want to play an assassin go play an assassin! A fighter will still have more hp and better defense.

In the meanwhile a fighter is still somewhat better than a farmer because of find weakness skill. But a farmer is better long term than everyone except archers because of Fletchery skill.

Besides when you get improved range with assassin, you don't need it, and there's a talent out there that does the same thing anyways.

I don't know how you think fighters suck at close combat and ranged. Provide some proof that doesn't stink.
They not completly suck that but they are not particulary good at any of those...

This is pointless discussion beacouse we can compare all other clasess skills/abilities indefinetly and I just wanted to make it clear that this class is not for newbies but newbies will pick it anyway. So I suggested some improvements...
If you are good enough to pull off human fighter then more power to you but most new players will get only frustrated beacouse classess that I've mentioned above are so much better, easier to pull off and much rewarding and fighter class is so pale in comparsion to them...
It'a a matter of balance and not preference...

12-10-2015 04:52 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
I see fighter as the most boring class ever... No matter how good it is. There is almost nothing special about it.

12-10-2015 05:32 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by emilus
PV doesn't kill monsters, and archery skill for fighter is a joke... classes like assassin ,duelist, barbarian, monk, paladin are way much better classess beacouse they allow you to kill mobs more efficcient and progress in game much faster..

IMHO fighter class is so underpowered and need improvements:

something like:

- lower energy consumption in close combat
- increase critical scores when fighting unarmed
- give chance to stun enemy when fighting with with bare hands

etc...
Well, if you're trying to fight with your bare hands as a fighter, that might be your problem. They don't get any bonuses for doing that at all. Play Monk/Beastfighter/Duelist (apparently) for that. That said, a Fighter arguably has better raw damage potential than a Paladin or Barbarian, due to starting with Find Weakness (and Archery), plus extra DV, PV, crit rate, and, at high level, bonus damage +Stun if you use that special attack. Their class powers aren't fantastic, but they're pretty decent. Their skillset is solid, except they don't start with Healing/Herbalism. They can start with pretty good equipment, though their stat modifiers aren't the best. Four of their crowning gifts are good, and their Heir gift is one of the best, though it's hard to get.

They're not a top-tier class, by any stretch of the imagination, but they're a solid middle-tier.

This is pointless discussion beacouse we can compare all other clasess skills/abilities indefinetly and I just wanted to make it clear that this class is not for newbies but newbies will pick it anyway. So I suggested some improvements...
If you are good enough to pull off human fighter then more power to you but most new players will get only frustrated beacouse classess that I've mentioned above are so much better, easier to pull off and much rewarding and fighter class is so pale in comparsion to them...
It'a a matter of balance and not preference...
And the game specifically recommends several great newbie options in the character creation screen. Seriously, how much hand-holding do people need?

12-11-2015 12:05 PM
Member
Quote Originally Posted by emilus
Facts:
Fighters are not very good at:

- close combat
- ranged combat
- magic

all that make them very retarded/challenging class...
Let's not use retarded to describe things we don't like.

The idea is that Fighters can dabble in ranged and defensive melee combat in an interchangeable fashion, while implementing magic at a later time when they're ready.

The issue with Fighter is that a lot of things it has going for it are superseded by the Paladin. It has better equipment, better class powers, arguably better skills (Literacy + Concentration + Healing > Archery + Find Weakness + Metallurgy IMHO) , a better book drop rate, along with class helpful fitting crowning gifts (BESIDES JUSTIFIER).

If we're going to fix Fighter, we need to make them more inclined to be what the staff WANTS them to be; a defensive fighter who relies on shields, defensive tactics, and missile support.

This is so off topic.

12-11-2015 01:50 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Elitist
Let's not use retarded to describe things we don't like.

The idea is that Fighters can dabble in ranged and defensive melee combat in an interchangeable fashion, while implementing magic at a later time when they're ready.

The issue with Fighter is that a lot of things it has going for it are superseded by the Paladin. It has better equipment, better class powers, arguably better skills (Literacy + Concentration + Healing > Archery + Find Weakness + Metallurgy IMHO) , a better book drop rate, along with class helpful fitting crowning gifts (BESIDES JUSTIFIER).

If we're going to fix Fighter, we need to make them more inclined to be what the staff WANTS them to be; a defensive fighter who relies on shields, defensive tactics, and missile support.

This is so off topic.
Ha! Yes, so very off topic! It's funny but i play my fighters differently, I tend to slap a 2h weapon on and use my class powers to compensate partially. And as soon as I get tactics I go on defensive for higher DV, faster weapon skill training (more hits per monster kill) and I use my archery to murder everything I don't want to hit or pickpocket :)
Two handed weapons are so powerful, even a 2h sword of parrying, that I rarely ever fight with an artifact, so while it's true justifier rocks, a fighter would still be good with no artifact.

12-11-2015 02:16 PM
Junior Member
No its not off topic at all.
Word 'Fighter' is mentioned 3 times in first post and in topic summary you have another 'Fighter' word...
And IMHO human race is not main problem of this topic but fighter class is. For me title of this thread could be easily renamed to "Make Human Fighters stronger Combo for newbies"

08-06-2017 06:06 PM
Senior Member
More evidence that newbies pick human fighters:

http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread...and-I-m-pissed!

10-17-2017 12:14 PM
The Creator
Regarding fighters see http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=5355

Humans now also have been slightly buffed. They now receive slightly higher attributes across the line and also get a second free skill increase per level.

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