[Balance] Easing the start a little
issueid=1418 12-11-2012 02:27 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by Grey: 58
[Balance] Easing the start a little
Teaching game mechanics whilst easing players in

Just so we can spill the debate from Facebook into the forums... Thomas wants to make the game a little easier at the start, so that newer players don't find it impossible and off-putting. Initial suggestion was extra HP and a bit less hunger for the first few levels. Argument ensues about dumbing down the game / end of the world / etc. Even some silly suggestions of making it a separate "newbie mode".

Well, we all know ADOM can be balanced better here and there. We've had our fun removing abuses in the late game, but we should consider making the start more appealing at the same time. But I think just making it plain easier isn't the answer. Players need to be eased in, but they need to be taught the mechanics at the same time. So, I suggest:

- Start them with a potion of healing or a couple of pepper petals or spenseweed (depending on race/class)
- Give them an extra ration (current starting rations are somewhat meagre for some chars)

Simple result of this is player sees they're on low health and decides to do something about it. They see there is a problem and a solution to the problem. They feel clever for using that solution. And after that they might realise "I have no more potions, I should run". They have learned several valuable lessons. Extra HP would have just led to them meleeing the black druid for longer, and getting just as frustrated as they currently do when they die.

This is called a stealth tutorial - you deliberately lay elements in the game for the players to teach themselves how to play. ADOM does a bit of this already with starting gold and a cheap food store, but clearly that's a little too subtle for some. Players accept these sorts of lessons to heart much better than blunt tutorials.

Some other thoughts to ease the beginning game:

- Increase the gap between Hungry and Starving (as has been said elsewhere). Currently you have more time to deal with Sickness than Starvation.
- Maybe reduce food consumption in the wilderness? Especially in forests, where a lot of people starve early on.
- Make stone block traps less insta-killy. Perhaps have them do light damage + stun in a radius of 1 around the trap. Might make them more tactically interesting.
- If a player has decent piety and is close to death from Starving or HP loss have a voice boom in their head "PRAY, LOWLY MORTAL, AND I SHALL EASE THY PAIN!" Maybe stop this message appearing after the char has 100 deaths in their high score list.

Other suggestions to tweak the early game welcome in the comments, especially where they encourage players to learn. Preferably without changing the game much, just minor things to ease people in and get them addicted ;)
Issue Details
Issue Number 1418
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 7
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 9
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 1
Votes against this feature 5
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-11-2012 05:33 PM
Ancient Member
Won't some of the additional suggestions be abusable by experienced players?

12-11-2012 05:50 PM
Ancient Member
I have to agree we should be very wary about suggestions that would make the early game overall easier - the goal is to make the learning process less frustrating, not less necessary. It's not like there aren't a fair number of resources available in the early game right now; new players simply don't know about many of them yet.

12-11-2012 09:33 PM
Ancient Member
Another idea: the manual already has a section with beginner advice. Add a few more tips, and put a button to go straight to this list in the main menu, maybe coloring the entry so that it's easier to notice. Simple, and doesn't require changing gameplay.

12-12-2012 05:23 AM
Junior Member
I know this suggestion is more of a community thing rather than something that one person can implement, but a really dedicated, comprehensive wiki would help a lot.

I suggest this because this is how i learned how to play Dwarf Fortress which i would consider much more complicated, and its how i learned to play Minecraft, a much more simple game, but it still says something

Right now whenever i look something up for ADOM i google it and there is several different places, two smaller wikis, some blogs, and a guidebook, which isn't that bad but the guidebook doesn't have what classes get what skills at what levels, and the wikis are missing some key things, like some of the classes.

12-12-2012 08:52 AM
Ancient Member
I think the manual should be hosted online somewhere. There's a wealth of good info there that is often ignored.

12-12-2012 08:56 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Grey
I think the manual should be hosted online somewhere. There's a wealth of good info there that is often ignored.
you mean like here?
http://adomgb.sweb.cz/adomman-toc.html

I do get that is same site as pavel's book but still.


Quote Originally Posted by Twichyboy
I know this suggestion is more of a community thing rather than something that one person can implement, but a really dedicated, comprehensive wiki would help a lot.

I suggest this because this is how i learned how to play Dwarf Fortress which i would consider much more complicated, and its how i learned to play Minecraft, a much more simple game, but it still says something
In theory I agree. in practice:
a) we don't have manpower to do the thing at level DF or especially Minecraft does.
b) as I was told in other game - "each time you complain about x not being wiki, you should use time wasted for complaining to go and add it to wiki." Preety much defines how wiki's function.

01-10-2013 05:14 PM
The Creator
Various simplifications have been added for p9. For now we should experiment with them and then continue with more focussed RFEs.

01-14-2013 10:04 PM
Junior Member
As a beginner with ADOM. I would say these suggestions doesn't really hit to the point.

I really like ADOM, it just manages to annoy me away after half dozens deaths, and then it takes months before I try again. I do have patience with games (It took 7 years before I learned Nethack enough to win the game), but with ADOM it feels too often that game has decided to kill me and goes as far as needed to achieve that.

Example

I start game. Go to terinyo and buy food. Then i go to cave northwest from it. After I've searched through
top floor and are in last room to check, 3 blink dogs + couple other baddies appear. I manage to survive by praying. With 1/2 hp, and on exp level 5 now, I decide to stay and recover for a while. after getting 1 hp back floating eye tries to attack, so I decide to leave. Minotaur(on level 1 !?) follows the eye. After dealing with it I began my flight towards staircase...

On half way I have killed 15-20 beasties each one more dangerous than other and there is more in front and behind me as far as I can see. THIS IS TOP LEVEL! THE END...

Don't get me wrong, I like challenges and difficultiness in games. But that was execution.

Same with those wandering orcs in wilderness, no chance, in low levels you die. (if you don't get lucky and evade them. maybe 10% chance for that...)

01-14-2013 10:12 PM
Ancient Member
Jacew, the problem in your case was the dungeon that you are in. In that area, the monsters always spawn at double your level. So when you were level 5, the monsters were level 10. There are warning messages at the beginning indicating that something there is amiss... That area is designed intentionally to get progressively, rapidly, more difficult.

The Village Dungeon and Druid Dungeon will not have these problems.

01-14-2013 10:39 PM
Ancient Member
Er wait, doesn't entering the SMC give you the message you feel as if you shouldn't stay very long? Perhaps having the scroll of warning identified already would give a further hint.

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