Getting lost in the woods: tough wilderness mode
issueid=46 04-02-2008 11:36 PM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Plausible: 3
Getting lost in the woods: tough wilderness mode
a more realistic overmap mode with variable visibility and without automapping

EDIT: reorganizing this post. A few suggestions for a more challenging/realistic wilderness orientation experience.

From the 0.0.7 video, apart from the overmap size, the other difference with ADOM seems the highlighting options to distinguish between the area that is currently visible and the area that isn't, but that you've seen earlier. Cool!

How about the following, implemented as options:

1) Only the currently visible area is shown. No automapping of the areas you've passed through. You never (at least not by normal means) see the whole world. Coz real fantasy heroes don't have time for continuous mapmaking! They just get lost a lot and thereby stumble upon new adventures :D

2) Different terrain and weather give different visibility ranges. If there were some altitude map this could also make a difference (e.g. no visibility range at all in dense woodland except at the top of a hill).

3) The overland map changes orientation when the player changes direction; i.e. the player moves on-screen in only one direction but the map turns around him/her. Combined with suggestion 2, could really throw you off-track in dense mist etc. (But I don't immediately see how this could work for diagonal movement.)

4) Telescope and map items - the first increase your visibility range; the second show part of the world you're not currently in yourself.
Issue Details
Issue Number 46
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM II (formerly known as JADE)
Category Unknown
Status Suggested
Priority Unknown
Suggested Version Unknown
Implemented Version (none)
Votes for this feature 2
Votes against this feature 5
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




04-03-2008 03:02 AM
Ancient Member
1 is just silly for a game in my opinion, 2 makes sense but wouldn't change much (and yeah you can see more from a high mountain, but can you realistically make out caves and such), 3 sounds horrendous. 4 - well maps might work, if implemented correctly (and I can easily see problems with it), but telescopes isn't a sensible idea - you can't make maps with telescopes, all you can really do is see in more detail what you can already make out.

04-03-2008 11:20 AM
Senior Member
1) Hmmm. Just no. I still remember the times when I had to draw my own maps in Ishars and the like, and I am glad these are long gone.

2)This one's good. It might get tiresome, if you spend too much time looking for an abandoned temple in the jungle, but it's nice for realism.

3)That would take a whole lot of time to adjust to... and seems like a bitch to code as well.

It seems you really want to make travelling through the wilderness a challenge, with emphasis on the possibility of getting lost. It reminds me a bit of the 'uneal world' roguelike. Didn't play too much with it, too much novelty in one place.
Personally, I think the wilderness will be challenging enough as it is (I mean, based on ADOM experience.) It needs some additions, of course, but a top to bottom redesign seems like too much.

4) Nice. Maps would be good, but I'd rather they didn't 'reveal' anything, that's what the scrools of magic mapping are for.
For example, you buy a map to a crypt near some town. You 'r'ead it it and see an ASCII representation (can be black and white) of the area around the town with a big X that marks the spot.

Oh, and telescope would be nice if it allowed to 'l'ook at adjacent tiles in search for random encounters. I think REs need to be redone a bit, not just pure random chance to be atacked once you step on a tile, but some active means of getting in and out of trouble.
For example: with high survival you see '?' marks in adjacent tiles if stepping on them will produce a RE. (any kind)
Coupled with a tracking skill, which will tell what you are likely to stumble upon next.

04-03-2008 12:09 PM
Junior Member
It seems you really want to make travelling through the wilderness a challenge, with emphasis on the possibility of getting lost.
Yes. Could be optional, as not everyone likes this. I agree that since it is a game, this shouldn't get tedious. I don't think it would if the world is interesting and alive.

Consider that we're talking about a medieval-ish fantasy setting here. We modern guys are all very much used to detailed maps, to the point that we take such information for granted. But in the old days most people would have a very different view of the world, based on known landmarks, and they would travel from landmark to landmark.

1) I can see your concerns. And I was conflating the RL player and the character: if you, the player, take a break from a game for three weeks and forget all about the geography, the character shouldn't, as no time has passed for him/her. In that sense, the automapping is the memory of the character. So, perhaps a better alternative to my first proposal is to have only long-unvisited parts of the map fade away.

2)
It might get tiresome
Yes... that's why strategy would become important: don't travel in mist, avoid dense forest, or if you have to (the temple is in the forest) try to find a map or some directions beforehand, and bring a lot of food.
yeah you can see more from a high mountain, but can you realistically make out caves and such
I suppose not. Small landmarks would only pop into view if close enough. The telescope item would extend that range.

3)
seems like a bitch to code
Don't know... haven't tried. But the 'turning world' would be nothing more than a simple reordering of the elements in the geography matrix, not a big deal.

sounds horrendous
That would take a whole lot of time to adjust to...
It may sound scarier than it is:
Code:
   """
  """""
 """""""
 """@"""      Player starts out in open plains.
 """""""
  """""
   """

   ""&
  """"&
 """""""
 """@"""      UP: Moves forward. Forest becomes visible.
 """""""
  """""
   """

   ""&
  *""&
 """""&&
 """@"""      UP: More forest visible, and a city.
 """""""          Edge of the forest obscures what is behind.
  """""
   """

   "&
  """&
 "*""&
 """@"&&      UP: Gets still closer to forest edge.
 """""""
  """""
   """

   """
  """*"
 """""""
 """@""&      LEFT: Turns.
 """"&&"
  ""&
   "&

   """
  """""
 """"*""
 """@"""      UP: Moves forward away from the forest - at right
 """"""&          angles to the original forward movement.
  """&&
   "&
4)
telescopes, all you can really do is see in more detail what you can already make out
You're right. So that could be their function. Reveal details that are too far otherwise, as well as point out random encounters, as spectre suggested.

Maps would be good, but I'd rather they didn't 'reveal' anything, that's what the scrools of magic mapping are for. For example, you buy a map to a crypt near some town. You 'r'ead it it and see an ASCII representation (can be black and white) of the area around the town with a big X that marks the spot.
Agreed!

04-04-2008 03:03 AM
F50 F50 is offline
Senior Member
I dislike the idea of getting lost in the wilderness and losing map over time. This would logically have to expand to dungeons, which, though already explored and mostly vanquished, would require a player that has left for a while to re-explore (as more time has passed for the player than the PC), but not a player who hasn't, as less time has passed for the player than the PC.

04-05-2008 12:38 PM
Ancient Member
I like the idea of having a harder wilderness, but:

1. Ewww. I think it would be interesting, but that doesn't mean I like it.
2. Yes.
3. Little bit confusing. Interesting, but won't make the game better.
4. Yes.

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