Tone down Maze rewards slightly
issueid=3945 10-21-2015 07:07 AM
Ancient Member
Number of reported issues by JellySlayer: 114
Tone down Maze rewards slightly

In an earlier RFE, the rewards from the Minotaur Maze were boosted because as of 1.1.1, the Minotaur Axe was... okay, but not really ever worth the trip. The Maze rewards now included a buffed up axe, an additional random artifact, multiple PoGA and PoCC, and a huge potential-breaking St and To boost from the Emperor corpse (for a small amount of corruption that can be immediately treated by the aforementioned PoCC). In a recent win, I worked out that well more than half of that character's stat gains came solely from the Maze. Plus there's a couple spellbooks, I think. This is a little over-the-top, IMHO, as clearing the Maze basically catapults characters to obscene power levels and makes the endgame really trivial. I do think that the rewards ought to be better than 1.1.1, but I think they can be scaled back a bit from their current state.

Honestly, I think the buffed axe, which is now more or less the best weapon in the game outside maybe the ToTRR and Justifier, is probably sufficient to attract players to give the Maze a try, but just scaling back a few of those things would be fine. I'd suggest removing the stat-boosters: Drop the PoGA and make corpse respect potentials, or still have it break potentials but maybe +3 St/To instead of +6/+6. If we wanted to go a bit further, I'd suggest dropping the random artifact as well. That would still make this a pretty excellent quest reward, far better than pretty much anything else available ingame, but not as spectacularly game-breaking as the present situation.
Issue Details
Issue Number 3945
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Implemented
Priority 3
Suggested Version ADOM r61
Implemented Version ADOM r62 (v2.0.1)
Milestone Potential work pipeline
Votes for this feature 10
Votes against this feature 9
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




12-21-2015 08:23 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by shockeroo
Corpse now respects potentials. Dislike.
Rekt.
Oh well, goodbye Maze, you had your fun for a while.

12-21-2015 03:34 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by emilus
Is 2.0.2 the same as r64?

In r63 the corpse definitely boosted me past potentials (and it had the other rewards toned down)

12-21-2015 03:47 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by emilus

I hate to say it but the wiki note is wrong. Ahpla did some actual testing and here's his results

12-21-2015 09:53 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Blank4u47
I hate to say it but the wiki note is wrong. Ahpla did some actual testing and here's his results
If you think its wrong then correct it !!!

I did not reverse engineered adom to test every possible chances if somone did it then why Wiki is not yet updated ???

12-21-2015 10:17 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Harwin
Is 2.0.2 the same as r64?

In r63 the corpse definitely boosted me past potentials (and it had the other rewards toned down)
for me not but...what if I say you as some other posted below that rewards are more random now and you cannot predict exact result every time ? Personally I have no time and patience to go to maze every time to test all possible results without cheating / reverse engineering game.

12-21-2015 11:23 PM
Ancient Member
I would if I had any idea how to! Besides, when I read on the site, there's like a panel you need to speak to before posting a change?

Edit: chill out man, just a correction.

12-21-2015 11:38 PM
Ancient Member
Anybody can edit or make pages on the Wiki.

Just go to the page and click edit at the top. There's no panel or anything. I don't think the Wiki is being actively maintained, actually, just random people contributing when they feel like it.

12-22-2015 12:07 AM
Ancient Member
Oh, ok. Thanks :)

12-22-2015 06:17 AM
Senior Member
Just ate mino emperor corpse again - got +3 Str (from 25(28) to 28(28)), + 3 To (from 36(36) to 39(39)) and + 6 Pe ( from 24(24) to 30(30). So it does push past potentials, at least sometimes.

03-01-2016 04:07 AM
Junior Member
Remove also Anicent scythe,because it gain unlimited PoGA,FGJC - IS OK!(no)...No one going into Maze,now it will be forgotten because some guys dont like it,A W E S O M E

Tone down Yourself!

With passionate hate!

03-01-2016 07:40 AM
Ancient Member
Maze rewards are still pretty good. Axe alone is worth the trip.

03-04-2016 11:29 PM
last time I only got 4 potions total (1 poga), and a spellbook of darkness :<
maybe keep the random artifact?
there's usually a good enough random weapon+shield somewhere to have good melee/high dv in berserk. at least with how i play i don't use the axe ever (do people attack in defensive?)

03-05-2016 12:21 AM
Ancient Member
Well, if you aren't using the axe you might as well just skip the Maze. It's more-or-less the best weapon in the game. Don't really need much DV when you can 1 hit kill everything.

03-06-2016 12:01 AM
Junior Member
One of the wost implemented RFEs by far. It does indeed sound like a "nobody visits that place anyway so let's nerf it even more to have even less incentive to go there and never regret missing it in my runs".

1.2.0 pre-nerf had a good balance (Welcome to visit that place for a good stat/artifact/book boost but get ready to spend extra turns, get some corruptions and maybe stats drained).

Now (in 1.2.0 past pre-60) the maze is even worse than it was in 1.1.1. (!!!) How so if the rewards are better, you might say? Well, in 1.1.1 the maze was easily ran through by checking the top trap type. In 1.2.0 the player has to go through a couple fake levels which is really nauseating without magic mapping and might be tough with limited magic mapping.

Back to the topic: 1.2.0 pre-nerf rewards rocked (a pack of rewards for a lot of turns spent/stats drained). Now it's just not worth visiting. There's no chance of not getting ANY weapons throughout the whole game. Non-ultra runs don't need that many extra turns spent, ultra runs have a lot of grinding --> other things to do and other items.

If a player isn't bothered with the turncount he probably shouldn't be bothered with having a bunch of big rewards in the maze; there are a lot of other imbalanced risk/reward things for non-turncount players. A few listed above - scythe and FGJC greater vault.

03-06-2016 12:40 AM
Ancient Member
Maze is easy. just beat the bug temple for magic mapping scrolls and tp wand, can take out the maze in very few turns in exchange for uber weapon.

03-06-2016 01:17 AM
Junior Member
What you both still fail to realize is the fact that a character that is capable of beating bug temple and/or has a lot of spare turncount doesn't find those rewards "imbalanced" in any way. If you're going deep into "I don't care about turncount" territory you might find a lot of other abusable mechanics.

It's sad to see the location crippled by RFE with an idea behind it being "there's a big reward in case of your character
a) not being limited by turncount
b) being strong enough to do the maze but somehow unable to find a weapon
c) somehow still not being able to find a weapon to have the reason to go there
d) and not being imbalanced enough to find the 1.2.0 prenerf rewards strong to even put a complaint on the forums"
so let's cripple the maze even more. The location doesn't need to give an unfair advantage in ANY case.

03-06-2016 03:30 AM
Ancient Member
I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble understanding your exact point, are you saying that you want the previous rewards back? Or are you just saying this rfe sucks?

Personally I like the nerf, I'm not a player who pays attention to turn counts, but if I want an awesome weapon and ok boost to str and To, I do maze, otherwise, I go adventure elsewhere. Regardless though, I'm going to do the bug temple, because nothing makes me sit on the edge of my seat sweating bullets more than a pre- water temple clearing of the bug temple.
The main reason I like the nerf is because the maze made my late game totally lame and unchallenging. I'd overpower everything to the point where fights became monotonous rather than dangerous and fun.

03-06-2016 05:09 AM
Senior Member
I find the maze fun even though it can be frustrating. There a ton of levels in the game I will visit even if I don't get useful rewards - I'll go into gremlin cave, get the phial, then drop it in my stash and never pick it up. I just like doing the content. The new random dungeons are relatively useless and I clear all of them. Not every area needs notable rewards, as adventuring and playing the game is fun. As someone who will do it anyway, the fact that I can some rewards at all, with a random chance a big payoff like +4 to all stats, is a nice bonus. Not everyone feels this way, and some people care about turn counts and being compensated, but not all content has to be for all players.

On a related note, there has been a lot of power creep since the rebirth, and removing some of it is a good thing.

03-06-2016 08:54 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Caleb
has a lot of spare turncount doesn't find
Normal characters have all the turn count in the world... So how this in an argument for anything?

From my point of view maze simply does not offer anything interesting to gameplay. Either it is breeze (with tp and magic mapping) or slog (without them). There is not much of tactical approach or smart things to do in there... Most of problem is that somethings do not have alternatives (let's say TOEF area damage can be handled in few ways (4x resist, regeneration, IttP talent..)). Have magic maps - great, don't have - out of luck. Same for controlled tp.

03-06-2016 12:04 PM
Senior Member
I like the nerfed rewards myself - it used to be I would do everything possible for no reason other than having done it (like hapro), but now I feel comfortable skipping the maze if I don't want the axe. Anyone who would use the axe is still getting enough of a reward.

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