Shields balancing
issueid=1278 10-17-2012 01:16 PM
Senior Member
Number of reported issues by Spellweaver: 9
Shields balancing
Shields are illogically OP.

Can you imagine a character, who is not even a warrior, walking around with a tower shield in his hand without even unequipping it? You know, it's not only heavy, it's the same size as human. How can you move with it without penalties at all?
Everything has penalties. Double-wielding is severely punished (i.e. by to-hit penalties and, worse than it, increased energy cost), but fighting with a dagger from a giant tower shield (and running with it, blocking enemy attacks while moving - can you even imagine running and turning that giant list of metal around you to deflect attacks?) seems normal.

I have two suggestions.
First, penalties for double-wielding should be not that heavy. You are already losing a shield bonuses.

Second, shields can be nerfed in one of the ways:
1. Removing DV bonus given by weapon if you are using a shield. Why? Because it's impossible to block with both your weapon and your shield at the same time. TES shows a good example of how this should work.
2. Make equipped shields give penalties on movement energy cost depending on their type. You can either block attacks and move slower, as you have to pay attention to your shield, or put your shield on your back and run more or less normally, but certainly without the ability to block attacks.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1278
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category Other (please specify)
Status Suggested
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 4
Implemented Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 9
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 5
Votes against this feature 14
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-10-2013 11:11 AM
Junior Member
- You no longer can cast spells while wielding two shields.
Worst change ever.

01-10-2013 11:47 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
- You no longer can cast spells while wielding two shields.
Best change ever.

01-10-2013 12:28 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
- You no longer can cast spells while wielding two shields.
Most polarising change ever.

01-10-2013 12:52 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Laukku
I'm not sure about that as it also complicates walking through the animated forest :-/ I always wear two shields there to prevent accidentally hitting any trees, and if I want to cast a spell (not necessarily an attacking one) I can't do it.

I guess I'll just have to live with it. And of course I can always unequip one shield, but that takes a turn.
What if wielding only one shield (no weapons) with tactics set to Coward also made it so that the PC can't attack?

My only concern is that, if the PC manages to get inventory cursed while wielding two shields (or is stupid enough to equip a second shield when one is already cursed, and the second shield is also cursed), it'll leave the PC with no way to attack unless it's lucky enough to have missiles available.

01-10-2013 01:21 PM
Ancient Member
He can still kick! Also, that'd be a hilarious situation :)

Ooh, and new tactics for The Weakest Link with spellcasters!

01-10-2013 01:34 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin
- You no longer can cast spells while wielding two shields.
Why is it that you can with one shield and you can't with two of them? Hard to justify. It would be more reasonable to disallow the option of wielding two shields right away.

01-10-2013 01:48 PM
Ancient Member
How about an even simpler change: spellcasters must have one hand free to cast spells. I think this makes a lot of sense (maybe you need some hand signs). And it solves a lot of problems that have been brought up, imo. (2H weapons like staves would count as having a hand free since you can hold it in one hand while casting a spell, just not while attacking with it)

01-10-2013 02:07 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by SirTheta
How about an even simpler change: spellcasters must have one hand free to cast spells. I think this makes a lot of sense (maybe you need some hand signs). And it solves a lot of problems that have been brought up, imo. (2H weapons like staves would count as having a hand free since you can hold it in one hand while casting a spell, just not while attacking with it)
That actually sounds like an interesting solution, because that'd mean that you'd have to make a choice between good melee equipment and the ability to cast spells. No more characters good both in melee and spells! But it'd also be a big change to the rules of the game, too big maybe.

01-10-2013 05:33 PM
Ancient Member
With a wizard using a spear and shield, at least I can form a mental image of the wizard channeling the magic through the spear and pointing it at the unlucky victim, or briefly putting down the spear or move it to the shield hand to have the hand free for just long enough to cast the spell, similar to how using missile weapons is no problem at all even while you have weapons equipped. You can't point a shield at someone.

01-11-2013 12:44 PM
Senior Member
What if the type of spell that the PC can cast depends on what they are wielding?

Free hands and staves (and maybe whips and daggers) can cast any sort of spell. Other weapons allow magic that targets others, but not self-targeting magic. Shields allow self-targeting magic only. Therefore, if you equip two shields, you will only be able to cast self-targeting magic - spells which allow targeting in any direction including self (like teleportation) becomes limited to casting at self (you can teleport yourself, but you can't teleport others).

Ball spells are considered to target others, not self. A few spells may be castable in all situations - this might include Burning Hands, perhaps (although I'm undecided - it might be the one offensive spell that can be cast from behind shields, since it can only hit one adjacent foe, or it might be blocked by shields like the rest), as well as (Greater) Identify, Create Item, Darkness/Light, and maybe Revelation.

This gives a benefit to using a staff, as it boosts DV more than most weapons as you gain skill in it, allows regular melee attacking, and also permits both self-targeting and regular offensive magic. It makes it difficult to be effective as a spellcaster while wielding two shields.

As far as implementation goes, I'd just have the various spells do a quick check of wielded items before actually doing what they do - so if you cast Teleport, it brings up the prompt. If you try to cast it at a foe while wielding two shields, the PP cost is used up and the message says something like "Your shields absorb the magic as you cast it". If you try to cast it at self while wielding two weapons (other than the special cases noted above), it might say "The magic travels along your weapons and fizzles away", again costing the PP without the resulting effect.

There could also be a suffix for weapons that enables self-targeting and a suffix for shields that enables targeting of others - if a wizard is lucky enough to find one of those shields, they'd be able to use two shields including that one and still cast as normal.

02-17-2013 05:49 PM
Senior Member
Strange - this shows up as Implemented for p9 on this page but as Suggested when conducting a search. Might be a bug with vBulletin...

02-18-2013 04:55 AM
Senior Member
Heh, I just noticed the problem is that the status wasn't changed :) It should be set to "implemented".

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