Limit backpack volume
issueid=3932 10-15-2015 07:56 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by ixi: 51
Limit backpack volume

Currently only weight prevents PCs from carrying unlimited amounts of stuff. But weight conditions are easily bypassed (spells, cool girdles). That turns backpack into black hole which just make no sense. Most games that I love have volume restriction (Fallout 2, Pixel Dungeon, Dwarf Fortress come into my mind).

Suggestion encourages strategic gameplay forcing you to choose what to take with you and what to leave on the ground. Currently it's just better to pick up everything to prevent item destruction to important things and to use them later, e.g. sell. This makes navigation through inventory very hard at some point (at least for my characters).

Volume has to be assigned to every item in game to achieve this (gold pieces and rings are the smallest, tower shields, plate armors, two-handed weapons and corpses pretend to be the largest). Backpack size could depend on race and class (trolls could have largest backpacks while elves could have smallest, monks could have smaller backpacks while ranges could get a bonus).

Item volume could have some other applications, e.g. it could be used to determine number of items for dipping instead of weight.

Important note on item destruction. If this ever will be implemented item destruction should be reworked and nerfed.

I promise to add more details here if this suggestion will be liked by the community. Even can try proposing backpack and item volumes.
Issue Details
Issue Number 3932
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Suggested
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version ADOM r61
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 2
Votes against this feature 15
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




10-19-2015 12:57 AM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Soirana
It would be better if you described how exactly new system would work.
I promised to do so if suggestion would be liked. However aparently it isn't (which I was expecting). Hence I don't see a reason to describe which would take a lot of time. Unlikely TB would decide to introduce such a complex change which has so much votes against. But if he would - I'd be here for any help.

Quote Originally Posted by shockeroo
1) How much more fun would the game be with this change?
Not much, if at all.
What actually makes game fun? Why weight & size restrictions exist in role-playing games at all then? Appears that someone invests money and time into features which aren't making games more fun and aren't going to attract audience?
Then why I'm proposing this and why there are players voted for this feature?

Actually it would make the game more fun. ADOM is a game where you have to solve complex tasks. Almost every character almost for every task needs to use at least one item. Due to random nature you don't know what items you might need in future. And no item in ADOM is useless, at least you can sell eveything. Hence the best way to play is to take everything unless it hits your carrying capacity. Which isn't an issue at at all almost in any mid-game. Current gameplay encourages exactly this way of playing.
The worst cons is that inventory management becomes very difficult. Don't tell about good interface, just imagine how would you navigate through such backpack in real life. No filters, no order. That the exact source of all inventory management problems.

If size restriction was implemented inventories were much shorter and easier to navigate. You had to actually think what to take with you and what to leave.

There is one more problem which makes end-game boring. Since PC is carrying all that stuff he becomes prepared for *any* situation which might happen. He has each type of slaying ammo and weapons, several types of armor with various suffixes and prefixes, etc. Generally nothing could kill him because he has everything needed to survive in his unlimited backpack.
Hence adding size restriction would make game more fun (kinda Dwarf-Fortress' definition of "fun" here) because there will be situations for which PC is unprepared.

10-19-2015 02:02 AM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
I promised to do so if suggestion would be liked. However aparently it isn't (which I was expecting). Hence I don't see a reason to describe which would take a lot of time. Unlikely TB would decide to introduce such a complex change which has so much votes against. But if he would - I'd be here for any help.
Well, I'd be interested in hearing more about it, if nothing else just out of curiosity.

Quote Originally Posted by ixi
What actually makes game fun? Why weight & size restrictions exist in role-playing games at all then? Appears that someone invests money and time into features which aren't making games more fun and aren't going to attract audience?
We seem to like game mechanics that are familiar, that are the traditional way that things are done. But like you are saying, we rarely stop to ask *why* this is tradition, or whether there is a better way of doing things. For most people, "fun" is just what they've done a thousand times before, both in ADOM and in other games in the same genre.

Quote Originally Posted by ixi
Actually it would make the game more fun. ADOM is a game where you have to solve complex tasks. Almost every character almost for every task needs to use at least one item. Due to random nature you don't know what items you might need in future. And no item in ADOM is useless, at least you can sell eveything. Hence the best way to play is to take everything unless it hits your carrying capacity. Which isn't an issue at at all almost in any mid-game. Current gameplay encourages exactly this way of playing.
The worst cons is that inventory management becomes very difficult. Don't tell about good interface, just imagine how would you navigate through such backpack in real life. No filters, no order. That the exact source of all inventory management problems.

If size restriction was implemented inventories were much shorter and easier to navigate. You had to actually think what to take with you and what to leave.

There is one more problem which makes end-game boring. Since PC is carrying all that stuff he becomes prepared for *any* situation which might happen. He has each type of slaying ammo and weapons, several types of armor with various suffixes and prefixes, etc. Generally nothing could kill him because he has everything needed to survive in his unlimited backpack.
Hence adding size restriction would make game more fun (kinda Dwarf-Fortress' definition of "fun" here) because there will be situations for which PC is unprepared.
I mean, I think that you are absolutely right about all of this. I actually haven't ever thought about how a bottomless inventory makes the player pretty much invincible late game. That's a very perceptive observation.

I don't know that adding volume restrictions is the fix we need for the inventory issues ADOM has, but I definitely think you are on to something here. Say we weren't going to use volume restrictions. Can you think of any similar alternatives that might be simpler? What about just adding a hard limit to the total number of items carried in the inventory. Like, you can't carry more than 100, or whatever. Another idea would be to limit how much you could carry in each category of item.

10-19-2015 05:07 PM
ixi ixi is offline
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by gr3ybird
Can you think of any similar alternatives that might be simpler? What about just adding a hard limit to the total number of items carried in the inventory. Like, you can't carry more than 100, or whatever. Another idea would be to limit how much you could carry in each category of item.
Limiting number of items, even per category, it's the same rails. Easier to implement but harder to balance. One that doesn't like an idea of the volume restriction wouldn't love to see number of items limit.

Another fixes are - revising how carrying capacity scales with strength, nerfing to SoA and nerfing girdles.

Anyway that would turn unlimited backpacks to finite. Which still requires proper changes in other game areas.

10-19-2015 06:45 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
Limiting number of items, even per category, it's the same rails. Easier to implement but harder to balance. One that doesn't like an idea of the volume restriction wouldn't love to see number of items limit.

Another fixes are - revising how carrying capacity scales with strength, nerfing to SoA and nerfing girdles.

Anyway that would turn unlimited backpacks to finite. Which still requires proper changes in other game areas.
Just nerfing SoA might get a lot of what you want. In games with SoA I basically just carry everything. In games without SoA I do have to think a bit about what I carry. Also, casters already tend to carry a 0-weight toolbox around (their spells), so limiting their inventory is a less drastic change. High strength characters tend to not have as many spells, so they'd have other backups.

10-20-2015 03:28 AM
Senior Member
When it comes down to it, I feel like the best way to prevent players from carrying too much is to actually give them a meaningful alternative. Currently there are very few convenient places to store things. I mean, the barbarian glade and the ogre cave are popular for that function, but it's not like they were intentionally implemented to serve that purpose. There has been no thought put into what players are supposed to do with their junk from a design perspective. At the very least there need to be places near significant locations where you can safely leave stuff without having to worry about NPC's picking it up.

The *best* meaningful alternative to being a pack rat would be to set up a waypoint system and a global stash (the contents could be accessed periodically from a number of different locations). Otherwise, you really can't do much to fix this problem. I strongly suspect that if you posted an RFE just about decreasing inventory weight it would be downvoted just as much as this one. Just saying "don't do that" to a very large number of player who have been carrying around a lot of stuff for a number of very good reasons for years of playing will not change things.

10-21-2015 02:42 PM
Senior Member
Quote Originally Posted by ixi
It just depends on backpack / item sizes. Having tons of golds and rings must be fine. Having year's supply of stomafillia should work as well. Carrying around 20 books should work but is likely to fill all backpack up. But I don't see how one could carry 3 moloch armors, 22 plate/scale mails with different affixes and 2-3 types of every weapon available in game. And f course about 1k arrows, 1k scrolls, 1k potions...

The volume restriction I'd like to see - one that allows to carry all really important stuff required to stay alive with you without knowing about volume at all. And once insane grinding starts - no more space in your pockets.
Actually, that's a reason for removing restrictions on carried weight.
You don't actually haul everything in your backpack - you create an improvised sled that you pull and put things there.

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