(RFE) Make bolt spells targetable
issueid=1639 01-05-2013 02:37 AM
Junior Member
Number of reported issues by Black Mantis: 13
(RFE) Make bolt spells targetable

A mighty wizard strides the world, laying waste to his enemies wherever he goes. His powers are nearly unlimited; he can fire bolts of any color, of tremendous power, at astonishing range. Indeed, there is almost nothing he can't do.

Except aim in any direction other than one directly in line with the keys of a number pad. This bizarre handicap may be the result of his not having been born an ambiturner -- he can't turn left. Yes, that was a shameless Zoolander reference.

Seriously though, it doesn't make sense. Solution: Make bolt spells targetable in much the same way as using missile weapons. Range would not be affected, but it would make casting magical projectiles much more realistic, not to mention more useful. It would also make bolt-casting NPCs equally more capable, so it balances out.
Issue Details
Issue Number 1639
Issue Type Feature
Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)
Category All
Status Rejected
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version ADOM 1.2.0 pre 8
Implemented Version (none)
Milestone (none)
Votes for this feature 3
Votes against this feature 10
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)




01-05-2013 07:15 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
To make up for it, you could double the casting cost of all bolt spells, I suppose. I think that would be fair considering how much stronger it would make them.
That sounds like a far too sweeping change to make for just a new ADOM version. Suddenly double casting costs for early game damage spells are going to give spellcasters a hell of a day. Especially considering that bolt spells are best used in hallways (being natural funnels for the monsters to line up to be shot) and those are always straight as a die.

The new bouncing rules would also be a hell to code, and you can't have ADOM bolt spells without the bouncing. I think bolt spells were never all that hard to understand and use, and this would actually make them harder to understand and use, even if marginally more useful. This is really something that should be left for ADOM II, with a new engine, and without a playerbase used to twenty years of straight line bolt spells.

01-05-2013 10:00 PM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Black Mantis
That's actually the very same argument that I'd present as a reason why it does *not* unbalance the game. Because the advantage that it provides the PC offensively is by the same token balanced out by the disadvantage that it provides defensively. It both hinders AND helps, and therefore doesn't really make things easier or harder overall. Only the player's strategy would change, not the ease or difficulty with which they can beat the game.
Except that it makes the game harder for all PCs and makes it easier for one specific type of PC (that already happens to be particularly easy).

01-05-2013 11:51 PM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
That sounds like a far too sweeping change to make for just a new ADOM version. Suddenly double casting costs for early game damage spells are going to give spellcasters a hell of a day. Especially considering that bolt spells are best used in hallways (being natural funnels for the monsters to line up to be shot) and those are always straight as a die.
Personally I agree. As you just said, and as I mentioned earlier, bolt spells are best used in hallways and similar straight-line situations anyway. That's by far the easiest way to get monsters to politely line up to be incinerated, and that's not going to change even if they become targetable. The ability to target will only make bolting marginally more powerful... but it will make it a LOT more realistic.

"Could you kindly take a step to the side so I can point my lightning-shooting hand at you? I'd aim my arm myself, but I've really bad rheumatism."

Quote Originally Posted by Silfir
The new bouncing rules would also be a hell to code, and you can't have ADOM bolt spells without the bouncing. I think bolt spells were never all that hard to understand and use, and this would actually make them harder to understand and use, even if marginally more useful. This is really something that should be left for ADOM II, with a new engine, and without a playerbase used to twenty years of straight line bolt spells.
I don't actually think it'd be that complex to code. Whatever angle it comes in from, it goes out the same way -- just mirrored (either vertically or horizontally, depending on whether it's hitting a wall square from the top/bottom or from the left/right). But you may be right about ADOM vs ADOM II. The code structure for Classic might make implementation of such a feature more difficult, I don't know. That's something the Creator would have to decide.

Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
Except that it makes the game harder for all PCs and makes it easier for one specific type of PC (that already happens to be particularly easy).
I rather think that the game should be easier for someone who has the ability to teleport, turn invisible, heal themselves, blow things up, raise the dead, turn people to stone, and all manner of practically godlike powers that high level casters in ADOM possess, as compared to that other guy over there. You know, the one with the muscles, who's really good at... well... hitting things, and that's about it. So I've no issue with the game being easier for characters with superhuman powers than it is for characters with... you know... NOT superhuman powers. It really only makes sense.

That said, if absolutely necessary the bolts could still be nerfed as per your previous suggestion by increasing the casting cost, thus eliminating the class-specific decrease in difficulty and keeping it even for everybody.

01-06-2013 01:48 AM
Member
Quote Originally Posted by Black Mantis
The ability to target will only make bolting marginally more powerful... but it will make it a LOT more realistic.
Well, it is still a game, there are a long list of things in ADOM that don't obey any particular logic other than gameplay balance.

01-06-2013 02:14 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by tootboot
Well, it is still a game, there are a long list of things in ADOM that don't obey any particular logic other than gameplay balance.
That may be, and while I personally find features that are deliberately illogical to be annoying, inclusion or rejection is ultimately up to the Creator. That said, just because a feature is illogical doesn't mean it is intended so, either. The aiming method of bolting in its present form might just as easily be a throwback from ADOM's simpler days, and if so perhaps it was forgotten and never got upgraded due to being overlooked by, in Silfir's words, "a playerbase used to twenty years of straight line bolt spells" who have a vested interest in the status quo.

01-06-2013 08:47 AM
Ancient Member
Quote Originally Posted by Black Mantis
I don't actually think it'd be that complex to code. Whatever angle it comes in from, it goes out the same way -- just mirrored (either vertically or horizontally, depending on whether it's hitting a wall square from the top/bottom or from the left/right). But you may be right about ADOM vs ADOM II. The code structure for Classic might make implementation of such a feature more difficult, I don't know. That's something the Creator would have to decide.
The current animations are based on 4 bolt directions (the characters \ | / -). The mere fact of having to create different animations for the bolts to look good is very likely hard to code, even without going into the actual game logic.

01-06-2013 09:07 AM
Junior Member
Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi
The current animations are based on 4 bolt directions (the characters \ | / -). The mere fact of having to create different animations for the bolts to look good is very likely hard to code, even without going into the actual game logic.
That much is true enough. As it stands, it wouldn't be pretty.

Then again, if you want pretty, go with graphics.

01-06-2013 01:46 PM
Pim Pim is offline
Member
Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer
And on the flip side:

Code:
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Without missile targeting, the PC is only in danger from the closest dragon. With missile targeting, every dragon in the line can hit him with a breath attack.
Only the first two or three dragons would be able to hit the PC, the others' bolts would not make it past the corner (or they'd begin bouncing).

If that is still too large a downside, then give targetable bolts to PCs but not monsters. Adds believability without sacrificing so much balance.

01-09-2013 02:56 PM
The Creator
Bolts are the way they are by design. Not going to change this.

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