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achievements: replace eternium man with something that does not require scripting

09-05-2015 12:22 PM

grobblewobble grobblewobble is offline

Ancient Member

Number of reported issues by grobblewobble: 72

achievements: replace eternium man with something that does not require scripting

One of the achievements you can unlock is "eternium man": achieve level 50 in the SMC without visiting other locations.

In my opinion this is not a good challenge for an achievement. It has been achieved, but only by using a script. And scripting (as opposed to actually playing the game) is the only way it can be done. You need to set up a automated pickpocketing factory and let it run for many thousands of turns. You can hardly do that by hand.

Therefore I would propose to replace this achievement with something that's possible to achieve by actually playing the game.. if a really difficult achievement is needed, there are many better alternatives.

For example, Brimstone man (killing the ACW without visiting any other place than the ToEF) would be a good one. This has been achieved a few times (so it's proven to be possible), requires a lot of skill and persistance, and does not involve any scripting.

But there are other possibilities, too. Anything is better than eternium man.

Issue Details

Issue Number 3863

Issue Type Feature

Project ADOM (Ancient Domains Of Mystery)

Category All

Status Suggested

Priority 10 - Lowest

Suggested Version ADOM r61

Implemented Version (none)

Milestone (none)

Votes for this feature 4

Votes against this feature 4

Attachments 0

Assigned Users (none)

Tags (none)

09-05-2015 05:01 PM

Burb

Senior Member

Even brimstone man seems "scummy" to me in that you almost need to find an altar to make it doable. Are there any examples of people who have done it otherwise? But yeah I agree eternium man is pretty unrealistic to do legitimately.

09-06-2015 11:20 AM

ixi

Junior Member

There are other possibilities to complete this challenge. Yep, most of them relies on pickpocketing, companions (avoid killing enemies youself) and altar. In general you just need equipment good enough to survive until you is able to handle everything.

Even if this achivement sounds bad - it's nearly part of the ADOM history. *man challenges existed long ago before resurrection started. Now ADOM just tells your success in these challenges. Removing "not good" man challenges from ADOM will just make less happy players who wanted to try them one day.

I think we'd better focus on actual problems rather than removing things from the game. E.g. pickpocketing balance.

09-06-2015 07:04 PM

Al-Khwarizmi Al-Khwarizmi is offline

Ancient Member

From a rational standpoint this change definitely makes sense, but I think the "* man" achievements have historical value. As ixi mentions, they were traditional challenge games that existed long before the resurrection, and their implementation as achievements is like a tribute from the game to its community. So I'm not voting either for or against, I'm torn.

It would be great to add Brimstone though.

09-06-2015 08:58 PM

grobblewobble grobblewobble is offline

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by ixi

There are other possibilities to complete this challenge. Yep, most of them relies on pickpocketing, companions (avaid killing enemies youself) and altar. In general you just need equipment good enough to survive until you is able to handle everything.

Is it? What do you mean by good enough equipment? When you are level 40+, even the rats generated in the SMC will tear you apart in a single turn. The only way to survive to level 50 is to gather enough wishes to make it all the way to level 50 in one go - something like repeatedly wishing for amulets of life saving, ancient karmic wyrms and kill both yourself and the wyrm with a wand of far slaying (make the ray bounce a million times).

I honestly doubt it is still possible at all anymore, now that gremlin bombs have been nerfed, ring dip engines have been nerfed, and XP has been changed. But feel free to prove me wrong. ;)

09-07-2015 04:07 PM

ixi

Junior Member

I won't be able to prove this if this challenge will be removed from the game. By the way these challenges are meant to be nearly impossible.

09-12-2015 01:06 PM

Soirana

Ancient Member

IIRC my testing, Eternium man allows wilderness encounters.
So in theory someone could do danger scroll reading, book collection and getting RoDS in wilderness and just do last part in SMC. I fail to see how scripting is involved.
More seriously gnome/hobbit wizard would need one wish and around 10 books of magic missile. That is doable by hand.

11-19-2015 09:47 AM

Stingray1

Ancient Member

Hi. Hope everyone is okay. Thanks and congratulations for Steam version.

Eternium man is too tedious. Please rather replace it with something interesting and fun. Like discover all guaranteed artifact during a game. Peace.

11-19-2015 09:56 AM

Blasphemous Blasphemous is offline

Ancient Member

Wasn't eternium man a silly challenge anyway? It relied on extremely scummy tactics from the onset.
It showcased how the game can be cheated using its own internal mechanics, how existing features can be abused to reach ridiculous achievements.
Now that continued development has removed the vast majority of those exploits, I don't think eternium man is feasible anymore, it served its purpose and should be discarded as a challenge mode.
It was always more of a showcase saying "Look, the game has so many loopholes you can do funny stuff that has virtually nothing to do with proper gameplay."
It doesn't apply to the game in any way anymore, as its foundations have been removed, thus - just remove eternium man or replace it with something entirely different.

EDIT: Wow Stingray, welcome back buddy, we missed you ;)

11-19-2015 12:47 PM

shockeroo

Senior Member

Maybe the small cave could be changed in some way that doesn't affect it's usual early game presence, but does allow for this challenge to be possible without huge scumming / mechanics abuses? Maybe how the DR scales at higher levels could be toned down?

11-19-2015 04:06 PM

anon123

Ancient Member

Originally Posted by Blasphemous

EDIT: Wow Stingray, welcome back buddy, we missed you ;)

Indeed, nice to see you here again.

11-19-2015 04:29 PM

Kelibath

Junior Member

On the fence with this one. It's a ridiculously hard challenge, but at the same time, a piece of historic ADOM lore that I smiled to see in the achievements list.

If this becomes a serious issue it might be possible to alter the achievement slightly?
How about Eternium Boy / Eternium Kid - Reach level 25 in the SMC without visiting any other locations / only visiting Terinyo?
Alternately increase the drop rates for food, potions and other helpful items in the SMC?

11-19-2015 04:40 PM

ixi

Junior Member

Well, there are a couple of RFEs pointing how monsters reach insane levels and how insanely powerful they become. Maybe resolve these more complex items first and check this afterwards?

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