Do Trees Earn XP?

[gut]

> Greater Molochs have afaik speeds in the 60-80 range, which makes hit-and-run
> against them a far shot from 'laughable'.

Not with the right tactics. Gm's are 7 and 3 movers, like the EG. Just keep moving
diagonally, and a smaller speed differential is preferred. Missiles are better than
melee, and the used missiles can even be recovered if the room is large enough.

> doing damage against one of those mothers is almost out of the question if all
> you have are non-piercing physical attacks.

Every PC has a chance for crits, and if you have the find weakness skill, it's even
better. My first blinger was a GE, so no find weakness. Still blinged a GM to death.

[Silfir]

To be fair, you should post your level, your Dex stat and how many rings of slaying you had to put that in perspective

[Doorsfan]

Greater molochs are whimps. It's the ghost bat that comes through the wall to sacrifice you on a altar that you should be tellin' myths about.

[Dudley]

I agree with Doorsfan. I've killed enough greater molochs in melee to know that a normal melee guy (save assassin or ranger, didn't try with them yet) can pretty much punch through the heavy PV on brserk mode. And by the time you meet them, you should be able to survive that 100 damage.

[Toan]

If you don't mind stair-hopping the ID for a blink dog, then you can just tp through DH1 and DH2. It's a lot faster, and sometimes it's just nice to teleport away from a Moloch, a Karmic Dragon and a Tension room full of Stone Oozes.

[grobblewobble]

> And by the time you meet them, you should be able to survive that 100 damage.
The discussion was about meeting them in the DH, and 100 damage is lucky. By the time you're crossing the DH, the first crit from a GM means you're dead. Taking them on melee at that time may be safe for someone who can predict their behavior precisely, but you'd better know exactly what you're doing..

Also, in the DH there are bound to be complications (as you are carefully manoevering around the GM, a quickling queen and a greater black unicorn enter the room to join in the fun and that golden wand turns out to be a master mimic..)

[DreadArchon]

The discussion was about meeting them in the DH, and 100 damage is lucky. By the time you're crossing the DH, the first crit from a GM means you're dead. Taking them on melee at that time may be safe for someone who can predict their behavior precisely, but you'd better know exactly what you're doing..

Ha, you mean Dudley is wrong about my level 14 Farmer berserking a Greater Moloch while wielding a (+4, 1d8+3) Orcish Spear and a (+2, 0) short bow with (0, 1d6+1) arrows? When I've never played a character that got past level 22 or about D16?

Curses, foiled again!

[Pumpernickel]

> Greater Molochs have afaik speeds in the 60-80 range, which makes hit-and-run
> against them a far shot from 'laughable'.

Not with the right tactics. Gm's are 7 and 3 movers, like the EG. Just keep moving
diagonally, and a smaller speed differential is preferred.

Nice to hear that it's laughable by your standards, but i don't even understand what you've been explaining right now.

Missiles are better than
melee, and the used missiles can even be recovered if the room is large enough.

Perhaps that's just my skewed foreigner english, but i thought 'hit-and-run' suggested melee?

> doing damage against one of those mothers is almost out of the question if all
> you have are non-piercing physical attacks.

Every PC has a chance for crits, and if you have the find weakness skill, it's even
better. My first blinger was a GE, so no find weakness. Still blinged a GM to death.

Aren't melee criticals restricted to double damage only, while missile crits can get higher damage multipliers (up to 6x or so)? Anyway, it's all nice to know that some people will happily melee greater molochs, but i'm still too scared to even step next to one; and i generally prefer to avoid them even if i have powerful ranged attacks.

[JellySlayer]

I actually checked the Halls. The down stairs in DH2 double as a Death Ooze + Ancient Blue Wyrm tension room.

Edit: DH1 has a Greater Moloch, but I don't think he saw me.

Tension rooms actually make DH much, much safer, as long as the tension room isn't something very, very nasty (ghost lords/kings are probably the worst since they'll actually leave the tension room if you come near it). Tension room kills virtually all monster generation on the level, so as long as you avoid that room, you pretty much have the run of the place.

The most dangerous monsters in DH are, in no particular order: Balors, Black/White unicorns, Quickling queens/kings, Greater Daemons, Emperor liches/Lich kings. The first bunch are dangerous because they teleport (or are very, very fast), and can chase down an unprepared PC. Liches can summon bad things and have very powerful confusion. Most other things can be avoided with controlled teleportation or 7lbs, or even just high speed. That's not to say that if you find there's a werewolf king standing in the room with the stairs that you're necessarily safe, of course. Situations like that are just more manageable.

[edit]Something like a greater titan can be bad too, I guess, if you don't spot him quickly enough, or mistake him for a greater moloch, since they can do massive damage well outside an average PC's sight range.

[DreadArchon]

Tension rooms actually make DH much, much safer, as long as the tension room isn't something very, very nasty (ghost lords/kings are probably the worst since they'll actually leave the tension room if you come near it). Tension room kills virtually all monster generation on the level, so as long as you avoid that room, you pretty much have the run of the place...

The most dangerous monsters in DH are, in no particular order: Balors, Black/White unicorns, Quickling queens/kings...

Yeah, it turned out to be a single Quickling King that got me.