Arena challenge discussion

[gut]

Minimalist idea: Simply obtain Gladius as quickly as possible. Use whatever
PC you want. You have to begin your arena fights before turncount X (2000?)
and obtain Gladius by at least turncount Y? We could change the numbers for
PC's with or without healing, but the extra turns should only be used for
healing, not, say, scumming ammo in the wilderness. The purpose would
be to show the allmightiness of your pet combo.

Max idea: Allow a certain amount of time (10 days?), turns (7000?), exp. levels
(10?), for building a bit, then try to get as many wins as possible before that
blasted unicorn/balor shows up.

Points idea: I'd be willing to dig the tier system from the, um, adompossible (?)
challenge, and we could assign +1 to wizzies/archers and +10 to farmers/thieves.
Maybe +1 for every 1000 turns under 10K to obtain Gladius? Maybe +1 for every
5 wins post Gladius? Penalty if you get a non-Lin-Ho(a)n-Kay opponent?

In any case, I think herbs should be banned from whatever any platform we decide.
I also think multiple attempts should be allowed.

[Soirana]

I also think multiple attempts should be allowed.

no to save scumming

[gut]

Of course not save scumming. I mean you can roll another PC.

I suppose we could allow only one try, but nobody would try thieves.
Maybe limited attempts?

[Silfir]

Please not an arbitrary points-based system...

My proposal: Everyone chooses their combo and attempts the challenge once, depicting their success. First arena fight must be started by turn 2000; once started, the player may only move inside the arena, and when outside must remain on the spot right in front of Dak (where he can stay as long as he wants to heal up after each arena fight, and change equipment if so desired, though I guess there's a risk of ratling traders stealing it). I don't think there needs to be a maximum time limit if all the player can do once the arena fights have started is stay in that one spot. All players to get the gladius "win". Teleporting out is forbidden, both for the player and for the opponent. You can still teleport as long as you stay inside the arena; if you can't guarantee that due to lack of teleport control then don't try it.

Tie-breaker for the WARRIOR SUPREME title is collected experience in the arena after winning the gladius (harder monsters in the arena = more experience). But: If anyone manages to fight and win all the battles available in the arena, to the point where there are no enemies left willing to fight, automatic WARRIOR SUPREME title for anyone who can do that, even if it means several get the title and share the winning spot (I bet Soirana would hate to have to do that).

There is no idiotic bonus for farmers or thieves either. a) because farmers are awesome in this challenge since nothing forbids herb use and they have that early herb garden, b) because no, if you want to show off your pet combo and your pet combo is high elven thief, then put your money where your mouth is.

I'm with Soirana in that there should be one attempt and one attempt only. Players can practice on their own at home, but practice is one thing, the real deal is another. If you want to use a thief, practice until you can do it with one. There will be enough variety anyway.

I guess if you really, really want thieves to play a role in this, you could go all the way with the Mission: ADOMpossible similarity and make it a team competition, once again with randomly distributed races; each team posts a class list, then the classes are distributed according to the list, and each team combines their races with the received classes to create their team PCs. The winning team is the one with the most golden gladii. In such a challenge, mastery of the lower-tier classes will be decisive for the win, so you will get plenty of your Merchant/Thief/Farmer-excitement. Each character would change hands twice; once after the character has been successfully led to the first Arena fight, once after ten battles, so each character would be played by three players taking turn in (once again) five-man teams. Of course, this means that players not only will try to help each other with hints and strategies and so on in every way thinkable, it's imperative for success since players need to take over completely unknown characters and face ten arena battles with them.

(Actually, the more I think about this, the more I like the idea of making this a team competition. I could write more about why I think this is awesome, but it's not for me to decide. Though I guess there is no reason not to make BOTH a singles AND a team competition, much like Wimbledon has a doubles and a singles title )

EDIT: Almost forgot: Silly points system ideas and "You can try as often as you want" cowdung aside, this is an awesome idea. I would like to announce that I would be inclined to approve of being counted as among the group which would be referred to as those being "in".

[vogonpoet]

Yeah, team game with all classes would be fun.

[Dudley]

As soon as this begins i begin a dark elf beastie.

[vogonpoet]

Drawing a bit of a memory blank re Mission Adompossible or whatever it was called...

The teams for have to try to complete with one PC of each class.
The teams have to use all the races, with as even a race duplicate spread as possible.
The teams get to chose their R/C combos.

Something like that?

[Silfir]

There were twenty PCs, one for each class. Classes were distributed according to the class lists and luck of the draw (placing a class higher on the list improves the chance to get it). The races were randomly distributed among the teams; since there are only ten races that means each race entered the pool twice, and it was possible to receive one race twice. Out of the received classes and races, the characters created their five PCs, and tried to play them through the differing tiers of Mission: ADOMpossible. The main problem with that challenge was that it petered out over time once it became apparent the later challenges weren't all that challenging after all; the most fun parts were the discussion of classes and r/c combos, of strategies and hints and so on among the teams, and the first stage, which had an UD run; later it turned out that playing all the way until the end takes a bit too much time for really everyone to stay interested, especially when a clear lack of winning chances became apparent. No such thing here - short and sweet, and since race/class choice is all the more elementary discussions should be vivid once more!

[JellySlayer]

Random disconnected thoughts:

I like the idea of a team challenge. Mission impossible style would work fine for me. Doing every class for each team is okay, but I'd be okay with less--with 20 classes x a few thousand turns each is still an awful lot of play time. I can't imagine that interest will keep up after the 14th or 15th PC at the same challenge.

Will there be any rules on the use of the teleport spell, given that it can be used to insta-win any non-summoner arena fight (including championship round...)?

As far as multiple attempts goes, my suggestion would be this: players are allowed to reroll a PC once if and only if their PC dies before they reach the arena. The challenge is to win the arena, not to get ambushed by jackals on the way there.

I would suggest amending Silfir's rule about standing in front of Dak slightly--the PC should be allowed to buy food from ratling traders as necessary.

Should we make non-CoC (I'd allow Terinyo for food deprived PCs too maybe) areas off limits? I'm thinking particularly here that casters can visit Bug Temple and get up 10 levels and still make it to the arena within 2000 turns (or whatever is required) whereas most other PCs won't have this rather significant advantage. Casters already have an edge by virtue of being casters anyway...

[Silfir]

Not every class for each time - dear god that would take forever. That's why was going on about the class distribution lists. I mean, the singles tournament lets you pick your own combo and gut has said that the challenge is partially about choosing your own pet combo. I loved the random element and the lists. I suggested it as a way to guarantee that each class would be played by someone, and that it would count for whoever got them.

I'd allow Terinyo and CoC, with no killing of NPCs. Wilderness encounters can be dispatched on the way.