Evolutionism vs creationism

**Theym** · 08-03-2010, 06:13 PM

Pearsonaly, i believe that The Bible(meaning 'the book') is just that, a book full of stories with morals, the only difference between it and any other piece of folklore was that it was written down, and people take it seriously when all it does is lay out the same morals that are repeated the whole world over

**JellySlayer** · 08-03-2010, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Overheat

After that, man fell into sin. Because of that, man is born in sin. But one cannot say, "I am getting punished for things I did not do." The fact is that you, me and everyone in the world have been sinning since the day we were born. Even one sin is an affront to the justice of God, so he who has sinned once (everybody) deserves eternal agony and torment in hell.

And that doesn't strike you as profoundly unjust? I didn't eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. My great-great-great-great-great-greater grandfather was, by biblical accounts, hundreds of generations after the story of Adam and Eve supposedly happened. It is therefore an affront to justice to say that I should be held responsible for something that Adam did, any more than I should be held responsible in human justice for something that my father did.

What is the purpose of giving humans this purported "free will", if one misstep by any individual, sentences the entire race to eternal damnation? It's hard for me to fathom any reason for God to do so unless He wanted all of humanity to go to hell. Because that is the invariable end result of such a system. If He just wanted us to love and praise and adore Him forever, He damn well should have just made us that way, instead of making us fallable and then punishing for all eternity because of the very ability to fail that He programmed into us. I'm not arguing what the Bible says. I've read it. I'm just arguing that it's morally wrong.

Originally Posted by Overheat

God gives man what he deserves-damnation in hell. God also gives those who believe in His Son eternal life-something that they in no way deserve. In what way is this evil or unjust?

The case of Christ is a great illustration of God's immorality: Christ was not responsible for man's sin. Punishing him on behalf of someone else is therefore immoral. It is immoral both for God to do it, and it is also immoral for me to accept it. If I committed a crime, then I ought to be held responsible for my actions. That is the essence of justice. Punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty is an abhorrent idea--it's like the cultures that punish a woman for being raped; it's not her fault, it's the rapist's fault! As a moral person, I am obliged to reject such a sacrifice on my behalf. More to the point, had I been around at the time, I would have been obliged to stop Christ from being crucified in the first place since human sacrifice is itself a rather abhorrent practice--even the Bible makes this claim, then perplexingly rejects it in this one particular instance.

Originally Posted by Overheat

And, where did all that energy come from? A divine being. Where did the divine being come from? It has existed from infinity past. How can that be proved? It can't it comes down to faith. Why should I believe it then? Because believing in evolution required orders of magnitude more faith.

How is it any more sensible to say that the energy came from a divine being than it is to simply say that the energy itself has always existed? Or, as some scientists suggest, it's possible the total energy may be zero, in which case, there's no need for anything to exist before the Big Bang.

Originally Posted by gut

From what book is that now? I think the bible is rather a compilation,
rather than a unified work. Tone and content differs greatly amongst
the included 'books'. I haven't read much of it, but I remember the
parts in red being quite different from many of the parts in black.

The New Testament includes the sections on human sacrifice (of Christ), hereditary sin, and eternal judgment, all of which I consider to be pretty malevolent ideas. From the Old Testament, we can add such behaviours as genocide, infanticide, slavery and rape to things that receive God's approval.

@Silfir

I pretty much agree with everything you wrote there. I'm just not sure that position is terribly consistent with what Christians typically believe.

**fazisi** · 08-03-2010, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by grobblewobble

Why? No one is convincing anyone, but we at least we can have some fun chatting, or maybe we'll manage to annoy each other.

I think it's pretty cool that threads like this don't get deleted like on most boards "to prevent flame wars".

False. While not convinced, I have become more interested in gaining more knowledge about macroevolution to see for myself if it is truly a plausible scenario. Thanks again to Jellyslayer for the links.

Originally Posted by Theym

Pearsonaly, i believe that The Bible(meaning 'the book') is just that, a book full of stories with morals, the only difference between it and any other piece of folklore was that it was written down, and people take it seriously when all it does is lay out the same morals that are repeated the whole world over

The problem is the Bible also does contain history. Since it contains both fact and fiction, it has become very difficult for some people to differentiate between the two. This has lead to some people saying it is all made up while others claim every single story told within must be completely true.

Since I can't tell you exactly which stories are true and which aren't, I just try to learn the moral from each of them then try to apply the moral to my own life.

I'm pretty much in a similar boat as Silfir. But he's a dick.

**minchazo** · 08-03-2010, 07:36 PM