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Thread: Evolutionism vs creationism

  1. #11
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    Until someone invents a time machine neither is provable and maybe not even then. Put it this way any God capable of creating this universe woud have had to exist prior to and further would therfore exist exterior to it. Similarly such a God could have created it at any point in it's history he wished and we who dwell wholly within the universe would have no real way fo knowing anything other than the apparent age of this universe which could be drastically different from the actual age of this universe.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyd View Post
    Until someone invents a time machine neither is provable and maybe not even then.
    I think evolution and Earth's four billion year history have been pretty much proved already. There's SO much evidence that supports them, and none that suggests otherwise AFAIK.
    Last edited by Laukku; 07-28-2010 at 11:43 PM.
    You hit Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, and severely wound him.
    The greater balor summons some help!
    The ratling duelist disarms you. You drop your blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12]. It flies to the west.
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, picks up the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, wields the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].

  3. #13
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    I think creationism and Earth's seven thousand year history have been pretty much proved already. No evidence against them AFAIK.
    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If I knew scripture like you, I'd prolly be an athiest too.. -gut

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  4. #14
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    Thanks fazisi, I rephrased my post. :P
    You hit Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, and severely wound him.
    The greater balor summons some help!
    The ratling duelist disarms you. You drop your blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12]. It flies to the west.
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, picks up the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].
    Andor Drakon, the ElDeR cHaOs GoD, wields the blessed Trident of the Red Rooster (+36, 6d12+18) [+12, +12].

  5. #15
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    I think this is the part where we square off and start shooting this "proof" at each other while undermining each other's credibility.
    I said it before, and I'll say it again. If I knew scripture like you, I'd prolly be an athiest too.. -gut

     /l、
    (゚、 。 7  
     l、 ~ヽ   
     じしf_, )ノ

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley View Post
    Thread created ^^. Let ubers rule the world^^
    Quote Originally Posted by nathrakh View Post
    Why you created this? Evolutionism has already won.
    This thread wasn't created, it evolved.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

  7. #17
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    Either way, I no longer believe in Dudley and openly
    mock those who do, especially Dudley.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  8. #18
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    Evolution vs creation (evolutionism is not a word AFAIK) is not really a sensible debate, because phrasing it this way is logically fallicious. It is a false dichotomy: evolution and creation are two possible explanations for the diversity of life, but they are not the only ones. Thus, evidence against evolution is not evidence for creation; neither is evidence against creation evidence for evolution. It is entirely possible that evolution could be false, but that there could be another, perfectly reasonable naturalistic explanation that does not invoke special creation. One cannot assume that if one side is wrong, the other is right be default. Both could be wrong.

    This is rather a problem for the creationist side of things, since it is extraordinarily difficult to build a positive case for special creation.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  9. #19
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    > it is extraordinarily difficult to build a positive case for special creation.

    To me it seems easy, but only on a general level. Things always seem to
    get quite derailed on the details level. I'm a common sense type human,
    and the 'order doesn't come from chaos' argument is an excedingly good
    one to my mind. To me, it just seems infinitely more likely that order
    comes from order.

    The theory of 'first there was nothing, then it exploded, the bits bumped
    together long enough, so that's how humans came to be' just doesn't
    smack of common sense. I think the thing that keeps me from being a
    fanatic for either side is my comfort level in just saying 'I don't know.'
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > it is extraordinarily difficult to build a positive case for special creation.

    To me it seems easy, but only on a general level. Things always seem to
    get quite derailed on the details level. I'm a common sense type human,
    and the 'order doesn't come from chaos' argument is an excedingly good
    one to my mind. To me, it just seems infinitely more likely that order
    comes from order.
    Your computer is what you might call a highly ordered state. It is made of many constituent pieces that are each less complicated than the whole, and work in an ensemble to produce a particular result. But your computer came about from disorder: originally, all of the pieces of your computer were trace bits of rock scattered across the globe. Putting them all together required clearly moved them from a less orderly state to a more orderly one. Now, yes, your computer was built by humans--but humans are not God. We are not granted special exemptions from physical laws; we have to obey the same laws as everything else in the universe. If 'order does not come from choas' were a physical law, it would apply to everything we do. We wouldn't be able to build or create anything, because doing that would violate this law.

    Fortunately, order can arise from chaos, in fact, it does so all the time. See, snowflakes (crystal growth of all kinds, in fact), cloud formation, reproduction, pretty much everything that humans have ever built, cooling of gases into liquids or solids, cell division, plant growth as a few examples. All you need is free energy, which the Earth has in abundance.

    It's worth commenting too, that "order" and "chaos" aren't terms that are terribly well defined in these types of situations anyway. Is one cell more or less orderly than two? Is a tree more orderly than a seed? Is a cloud more orderly than a bucket of water?
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

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