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Thread: Evolutionism vs creationism

  1. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    OK, I'll try.

    I had notions of right and wrong drilled into me by a religious parent. If I did not have said
    parent, and said drilling, I would have turned out much differently indeed. There were many
    right decisions I made earlier in life, in part, do to a belief in god and the logic that it would
    be wrong to harm his creations (including me).
    Would you agree that it would have been possible for you to receive moral instruction that wasn't based on god? Moral instruction that could have guided you just as effectively about what's right and wrong when making decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Considering the environment I was born into, without a belief and respect for god I would
    have prolly fallen into the following habits/pitfalls in my earlier years, and they may very
    well have continued into later years: tobbaco, alcohol, marijuana (and/or other illegal drugs),
    racism, vandalism, tatoos, thievery, foul language, jail, promiscuity (STD's), mistreating
    females, violence, etc...
    Do you think that these undesireable habits and behaviours are something that all people who don't believe in god are going to fall prey to? Do you concede that there are other systems of morality which don't stem from religion that can guide people away from these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    The reason I speculate this, is because those are the problems I see in nearby communities
    that aren't as religious as the one I live in. No, it is not a money thing, as the average incomes
    are similar. Seems having two churches and zero liquor stores within walking distance of one's
    house is a rather good idea.
    There are many places in the world where there's no prominent religion yet there are not these problems that you seem to think an absence of religious instruction can encourage. Perhaps it's cultural pressures that encourage this behavior in America rather than an absence of belief in god.

  2. #532
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    > Would you agree that it would have been possible for you to receive moral instruction that wasn't based on god?

    I don't think it is a matter of possible, as much as probable.

    > that there are other systems of morality which don't stem from religion that can guide people away from these things.

    Sure, but fear of prison ('getting caught') doesn't seem to motivate those in
    society who feel somewhat bulletproof and are too young/stupid to fully
    consider consequences.

    > There are many places in the world where there's no prominen
    t religion yet there are not these problems that you seem to
    think an absence of religious instruction can encourage.

    Perhaps they aren't bombarded by alcohol and drug merchants. Religion isn't
    a prerequisite for having a moral population, but it is a handy line of
    defense for those who are compelled to raise their children just downwind
    of liquor stores.

    > Perhaps it's cultural pressures that encourage this behavior
    in America rather than an absence of belief in god.

    Love the phrase 'in America'. If you think those problems I mentioned are
    American exclusives, you are prolly from Liechtenstien. Other than that,
    you are 100% correct. Furthermore, I find questions like: "Do you think that
    these undesireable habits and behaviours are something that all people
    who don't believe in god are going to"
    line of questioning to be insulting
    and simpleminded. For the record, duh, no.
    Last edited by gut; 12-18-2010 at 10:11 AM.
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  3. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Love the phrase 'in America'. If you think those problems I mentioned are
    American exclusives, you are prolly from Liechtenstien.
    Well, a lot of your observations come from your immediate community and surrounding communities, I don't see that it's that unfair to refer to your observations as "in America". If I implied that these are things that are exclusive to America, that was not my intent, just that they are present where you've observed them.

    You live closer to Liechtenstein than I do

  4. #534
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    Creation narriative is about the meaning and condition of man and his relation with God, not about the creation of the universe. What good would it have been for the priestly author of the book to recite the Periodic Table of the Elements? Or to discuss deuterium or cosmic microwave anistotropy? All that is part and parcel of the coming into being of the Universe, but why would the author of the Scripture want to tell anyone, let alone a primative desert tribe.

  5. #535
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    Perhaps we would not have been so primitive were people's minds more open to different possibilities. Religion was often stifled scientific advancement by preaching one unquestionable view of the world. Who knows how much further we could have come without it?
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  6. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    OK, I'll try.

    the reason I speculate this, is because those are the problems I see in nearby communities
    that aren't as religious as the one I live in. No, it is not a money thing, as the average incomes
    are similar. Seems having two churches and zero liquor stores within walking distance of one's
    house is a rather good idea.
    zero liquor stores? How do people survive in there?..
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  7. #537
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    most aren't yet like the dwarves from DF, they don't need alcohol
    to get through the working day. They just wait until they want some,
    then drive the 20 minutes it takes to get to neighboring couties.

    well, that is what they USED to do
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  8. #538
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    "Yet"

    And then they changed.

    Does it mean they're now the DF dwarves I know and love? =O
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  9. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    > that there are other systems of morality which don't stem from religion that can guide people away from these things.

    Sure, but fear of prison ('getting caught') doesn't seem to motivate those in
    society who feel somewhat bulletproof and are too young/stupid to fully
    consider consequences.
    Most moral systems aren't based off of fear or legalism. While laws try to reflect the moral fabric of society as best they can, there is no reason that simply because something is legal that it must also be moral. A law may be immoral, moral, or amoral depending on circumstance, and the moral system that you subscribe to. Thus fear of getting caught is a rather immature way to go about making moral judgments--it works as a rule of thumb in some cases, but does not allow for any real social evolution. It also makes people suspectable to the whims of tyrannical lawmakers.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  10. #540
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    > fear of getting caught is a rather immature way to go about making moral judgments

    many people are pure idiots. making them behave properly through use of stun
    guns is not entirely objectionable to me. How about fear of stun guns?
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

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