Char creation, starting items, and class "switching"

[Sradac]

So lots of people speak in these threads with the example of, you start as a fighter and decide to become a mage. Will we even be able to do that? And most importantly, whats the starting gear going to be like? Here is an exploitable example derived from adom. whats to stop me in JADE from starting as a bard with the heir talent and switching immediatly to a mage? Mages are powerful enough in the beginning clearing whole rooms in 1 shot, but now they get 7 league boots too??

Just saying, whats to stop everyone from starting as a fighter so they start with decent armor instead of dinky robes and switching classes right away to what they really want to be? Either give everyone crap for start gear, or give an incentive to actually start as a mage. Maybe talents you can only pick at char creation linked to a class? or give a mage a decent staff that increases PP regen slightly? Theres got to be some incentive to pick a class and stick with it from the VERY beginning not pick a class and 500 turns in switch to one for the rest of the game.


that is of course if its possible to be more than one "class".

[Grey]

Well, if there are multiple classes then it should be in no way trivial to switch. Something like Omega's system would be nice, whereby you have to join a specific guild in a big city and do quests or pay fees to go up the ranks (sometimes even joining is not trivial).

[Silfir]

I don't think it's logical to be able to "switch" classes. If anything you should be able to learn additional ones, at considerable penalty and with equally considerable effort, i. e. paying a trainer, spend game time and gold, do quests as Grey mentions. Attributes shouldn't be as easy to modify and matter more so you really have to take choices in the beginning. A fighter would've had to start out with nice Learning and Mana in order to become a decent wizard later. Learning he can make use of as a fighter, at least potentially - should be easier to learn new techniques and advance in overall skill with good Learning. Mana, on the other hand...

Who says the talent system will even be in JADE? It's a very recent addition to ADOM, even, and not really all that well-designed. For that matter, seven leagues don't need to be in JADE either, or as easily available.

I'd like to soften up the borders of the classes, and introduce even more variety. If you start out the game as a human fighter, for instance, you'd start out in any random human town that has a fighter guild (or the game lets you select the guild). But it's a large world. There wouldn't one universal fighter guild, there'd be dozens of fighter guilds present in various towns scattered all across the world, and all'd have a different interpretation of what a fighter should be. This is somewhat present in ADOM already; starting equipment of the r/c-combos seems to reflect different upbringing and different preference in weaponry, and racial skills are partly based on natural abilities of the race as much as racial culture and lifestyle - Dwarves are great Miners and smiths, and so even a dwarven wizard has learnt to do both since childbirth.

[Sadface]

This approach assumes a guild system is used:

You start off as, say, "classless" or perhaps you start as a low-ranked member of a guild in your racial area. Joining another guild restricts somewhat how high you can go (can't become a grandmaster fighter if you're a member of the wizards' guild), spreading yourself thinner restricts you even more. You learn new skills and abilities as you advance in the guilds, learning best skills at "grandmaster" rank. There would be a difficult quest that increases in difficulty as your experience (if there is such a thing in JADE; otherwise use guild rank) increases; for example (assuming rank 1 is level 1 and rank 20 is level 50, compared to ADOM)

Fighter rank 1 wants to join the wizard guild:

Kill the ghost haunting so-and-so's house.

Fighter rank 5 wants to join the rogues' guild:

Steal the treasure of a noble without being caught by anyone.

These are just examples of what it could be. The ghost could be weak and the noble's house could be full of guards.

(changed this part)

Though you start with basic abilities (fighter: weapon skill +2, wizard: magic missile/burning hands/slow monster), you don't gain access to useful ones until you've spent some time with the guild (say, rank 3 or so) and training would be more and more difficult (could use a "Total Guild Rank" that is a combination of all ranks of all guilds) based on how high your rank is. Earning Rank 1 in another guild would require time, as even if you gain access to the guild, it doesn't mean you'll instantly learn the spells or skills you need to actively participate in the guild as a Rank 1 class.