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Thread: Random Artifact Generator and player ghosts

  1. #11
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    I agree with Grey. It seems to me that the system in place is good. We have random items that are better than average with the prefix/suffex system. And artifacts are just so cool when they are well made. Like Laukku said above, the Silver Key, the Si and others are interesting artifacts. I like to think about Kinslayer having been used by a madman to murder his family and the blade was forever cursed with a thirst for human blood. Or the Black Tome. It's a magic book that can teach you any spell. Seems to me that this suggestion about artifacts is just adding more of the prefixes to weapons, so they can have 2 or 3 at once. The chance to throw everything way out of balance seems unlikely (wicked/nasty/murderous -foo- of devastation/mayhem/slaughtering), and the effort of making an engine that can't make imbalanced items would be better spent making more artifacts.

    Now as far as player ghosts? I like that idea. Have a 1% chance when a Ghost (lord/king) is made to pick a name from the high score list and give him +(player level on death)PV or somthing.
    Proud member of Team Silfir in the Treasure Hunter debate.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn View Post
    You never got MY point, which was that these AREN'T artifacts.
    You said there were 3 levels, random, special and artifact, with the last level being an extension of your system.

    They're not meant to be thematic or specifically useful. They're meant to add a bit of extra random flavour to the game by providing special items that aren't quite as special as artifacts. And while particularly useful combinations are unlikely, that just makes them all the more special if you happen across one of them, kind of like finding a masterwork eternium two-handed sword of devastation or a wicked eternium two-handed sword of penetration.
    Basically they're junk, that every now and then might be good. Turns the game into a slot machine like Diablo. "Oh look, a vault, lets kill everything and find awesome loot! ..... This is crap, this is crap, this is crap, this is crap, this is-- ooh, this would be kind of okay on a wizard, but mostly crap..." Of course ADOM has a fair bit of this already, but not as bad as the *Bands.

    Extra random flavour isn't always good. Especially if most of that flavour is bland and unfulfilling.
    Platinum Edition ADOMer
    http://gamesofgrey.com - check out my roguelikes!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    You said there were 3 levels, random, special and artifact, with the last level being an extension of your system.
    I never said that artifacts are an extension of the system. I said there were three types of items - regular, special, and artifact. I then said that "regular" are just the usual items, with normal destruction rates and are generally not particularly powerful. I said that artifacts remain as they are, being powerful and hand-crafted. I said that special items are in between, with randomisation but still being quite powerful, with reduced destruction rates but not complete invulnerability.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Basically they're junk, that every now and then might be good. Turns the game into a slot machine like Diablo. "Oh look, a vault, lets kill everything and find awesome loot! ..... This is crap, this is crap, this is crap, this is crap, this is-- ooh, this would be kind of okay on a wizard, but mostly crap..." Of course ADOM has a fair bit of this already, but not as bad as the *Bands.

    Extra random flavour isn't always good. Especially if most of that flavour is bland and unfulfilling.
    They really shouldn't be junk, most of the time. But most of the time, they should be inferior to the vast majority of artifacts... which is exactly as it should be... but better than the vast majority of regular items. And let's be honest, pretty much all roguelikes are "slot machines" in that respect, with the RNG being king.

    Why wouldn't they just be junk? Mostly because the negative traits would be uncommon, as you'd expect, at most, maybe a 1-in-10 chance of each trait being a negative one. This, combined with affinity, would mean that much of the time, you'd get items with sensible combinations of traits like, say (for a sword), fire resistance, does fire-type damage, slays giants, grants the ability to see invisible, and increases Perception (hot white sword "Burning Eye"). Or an amulet that, say, boosts Learning and Willpower, increases PP regeneration rate, and pulls the user towards N (symmetric amulet "Mastermind"). Or boots that reduce movement costs, increase Dexterity, and give resistance to paralysis (slick boots "Freeflow"). Or a whip that has vampiric effects, has +2 damage die and +3 damage per die, draws the user towards C, and corrupts with use (vicious whip of Dra'kul). You get my point, I assume.

    What I'm saying is that if the system is well defined, it'll make interesting items that are somewhat useful far more often than it will make useless items that are bland.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn View Post
    Why wouldn't they just be junk? Mostly because the negative traits would be uncommon, as you'd expect, at most, maybe a 1-in-10 chance of each trait being a negative one. This, combined with affinity, would mean that much of the time, you'd get items with sensible combinations of traits like, say (for a sword), fire resistance, does fire-type damage, slays giants, grants the ability to see invisible, and increases Perception (hot white sword "Burning Eye"). Or an amulet that, say, boosts Learning and Willpower, increases PP regeneration rate, and pulls the user towards N (symmetric amulet "Mastermind"). Or boots that reduce movement costs, increase Dexterity, and give resistance to paralysis (slick boots "Freeflow"). Or a whip that has vampiric effects, has +2 damage die and +3 damage per die, draws the user towards C, and corrupts with use (vicious whip of Dra'kul). You get my point, I assume.

    What I'm saying is that if the system is well defined, it'll make interesting items that are somewhat useful far more often than it will make useless items that are bland.
    There is a difference between Adom and modern games like Skyrim etc. In Adom, artifacts are truly special items, in Skyrim, after 3 weeks of playing I finally found a mildly superior artifact weapon (which will most likely be surpassed in a day or two by a scripted upgrade of a level-dependent 'normal' weapon).

    A special item does not feel special if it is not actually practically special for a long period of play time.

    What you suggested are actually artifacts is the sense of Adom game play. The 'recent' introduction of the prefix/suffix items already put a dent in the artifact uniqueness.

    Why are there even any basic (iron etc) items in Adom (or any other game) because they get obsolete in a few minutes of game time? Would it not feel most epic to actually play with sucky equipment most of the time? Then when you finally find a really good item it would feel better than sex (or a six-pack of beer).

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