Someone had to do it

[szopin]

And how much is this 'enough'?
You're implying that there's not enough, so please tell me what we should expect to get from going straight through UD?

Perfectionist will have 12-13 floors of loot drops behind his back. It is not about numbers though. The "meaningful" part is meaningful

[JellySlayer]

There are several problems I have with this. The first is that scarcity is what actually makes things meaningful. Items that you have in abundance or are guaranteed, are treated as much less valuable. A wand of teleportation is an immensely powerful, extremely useful item. But it isn't treated as such because it's a fairly common wand, and, more importantly, there's one that is relatively easy to access quite early in the game. So everybody has access to a fantastic item, whereas certain other items that are arguably less powerful, but quite rare are much more coveted--on demand teleportation is arguably better than 7lbs, but nobody in their right mind would wish for wands of teleportation instead of 7lbs because the former is common and the latter is rare. Scarcity enhances the value of "good" drops.

Second is, as I noted in the RFE on this, what is valuable to one character is junk to another. Having multiple copies of the same powerful item does not usually provide any significant benefit. Is there any reason to have more than one AoLS in a game? Not really. The second, third, and fourth AoLS are junk items, as is the first AoLS if it comes after Khelly. You're better off wearing the ankh. Having six SoCR is not appreciably different from having fifteen--it's not common to see ultras, especially ULEs, who have 10+ SoCR in their backpacks. Useless. That murderous two-handed sword of devastation is junk to a beastfighter, and those fifteen spellbooks of fire bolt aren't going to do any good for a ranger--for that matter, a wizard only needs maybe three to finish the game. So unless you're having the game weight your loot to be specifically more useful to your character, you're still going to end up with a lot of "junk".

Honestly, it's not like ADOM is actually that lacking in items. You regularly see YAVPs where the PC is loaded down with 20000s, or 50000s of loot, and a lot of it is what you'd call quality stuff... eternium gear, slaying ammo, spellbooks and wands and things. It's just that when you can only have one (maybe two) weapons being used at a time, the fact that you have twenty decent eternium weapons doesn't matter as long as they're all worse than Big Punch. I don't see anything wrong with increasing the overall drop rate--I like treasure hunter as much as the next guy. But I don't think that changing the distributions is a fantastic idea unless it's done with a lot of care. Otherwise you can end up in weird situations like where a high level thief can pickpocket tonnes and tonnes of PoGA, but can't ever find water to bless them.

[edit]FWIW, I find that characters who manage to survive the UD tend to end up very well equipped when they come out.

[littlebrather]

As for me, there is no needs to enhance the *amount* of ADOM loot. Weirdest thing is to collect all that stuff just to be safe in the case of some trap/acid breath. More that 3 body armor, 2 shields, several melee weapons, tons of wands and potions, and of course small garden in the backpack. Oh, and nearly every missile you can found. Just check out any YAVP.
That *my* ADOM needs is *LESS items*. Surely all that leaver caps, boots, armors? Should I collect them as a holiday presents for my future children and family? Robes. Oh, who needs that +/-2 Ap on blood/clean ones? Any girls in Ancardia to notice that beside my 16 eyes?
Do you ever check this sets of clothes to found any modifiers? Or, mb, you just put on every robe in hopes to found *of invisibility* one? Even my god, not to say Barnabis, doesnt want to obtain all this plain items.

Adom has too many really poor loot. In case it was the drop-oriented game as Diablo, it would be normal, but now it's really weird. Monks need robes? For max of +3 PV? Just threw it out an wait for any Elven Chainmail. Scrolls of IMA and Defence, braces of defence, non smith-able leather items... just atmosphere of fantasy without any real advantage in compare with common +30DV bonus from Shield mastery lvl 10.
It would be extra good if every property of item has its consequences. Is that L+ priest wear blood strained robe? Hit him with thunderbolt, my lord! You came into my shop in clean clothes, not huge plate mail? We'll easily make the trade! Leather boots makes you less tromped.

Certain weapons has !slain powers, but it didn't worth to swap from well mastered sword to mace just to kill a bit more skeletons. Why maces and hammers are so differ in the process of hitting? It's better to use club than mace if you are weaponsmith. Why?
Why swords and axes are all the same in the terms of weapon mastery bonuses? That huge variety of melee weapons really doesn't matter as far you chose one. But in my dreams axes are far differ from swords while hitting .... living trees at least. Maces (flails, clubs and hummers) are better to fight undead than dagger. Fighting swordsman or duelist with sword gives some bonuses (lesser chance of disarming?)

Adom loot should be enhanced in the terms of quality than quantity.

[Stingray1]

So let me guess... holeinthewall for first kill, smc to generate 1-2 level monsters then terinyo quests... died of boredom on the way. It's all cool for me, perfectionists should also get fun out of a game, don't deny it to people who like to play it differently though. UD diving should also generate enough loot

Wrong. Puppy cave for Giant Ant Worker, unless lucky enough to find a Gremlin. Save the puppy, the Vault has many usefull items for the early game. UD, I only do as a Druid, Bard, Farmer.
Then of to CoC. Terinyo quest comes later when my PC is able to kill/see Keethrax and have some way to deal with cats.

[SirTheta]

I very much agree with the gist of JellySlayer's post.

[Stingray1]

I am officially a grinder. Is there any pools in Minotaur maze? I only have the one left in the Stone circle. I think that Keriax might be =para, because ACW is atleast -para.
I do have some Dragon slaying ammo and a cursed scroll.

I've dug all graves and emptied the water level. Been everywhere, except maze and stone circle.

[Joe]

No pools in the maze. What do you need them for? The one in the stone circle isn't very healthy

[Stingray1]

AoLS. I know about it, I've been in a similar situation before, and have emptied it then.

This character doesn't have wish spell.

See, my next mission in ADOM is the old finish missing from my list.