Shop Question

[warheart]

Well, of course it might become gamebreaking if you keep restocking the shop and such. I never meant that. Normally, when I remember about this trick (not very often), I'll just rob a couple of useful things. I simply can't stand waiting for restocks or things like that. That's why I'll never smith anything for example. And this is what I was talking about, using this to steal a handful of things that you will be able to buy in ten minutes of gold farming anyway. And that's not really similar to piety scumming in my eyes.

[JellySlayer]

The OP was asking about shop restocks. From the context of the discussion, it is pretty clear that everyone else was talking about multiple restocks as well.

[Maul]

Well, of course it might become gamebreaking if you keep restocking the shop and such. I never meant that. Normally, when I remember about this trick (not very often), I'll just rob a couple of useful things. I simply can't stand waiting for restocks or things like that. That's why I'll never smith anything for example. And this is what I was talking about, using this to steal a handful of things that you will be able to buy in ten minutes of gold farming anyway. And that's not really similar to piety scumming in my eyes.

In that case, piety overflow abusing isn't serious either, really - one can always go to an altar and sac monsters ad nauseum, and you won't have to put up with bolts of energy or solars or the like, either. Yes, most ADOM exploits save you time (even save-scumming - you save the time of creating 10 new chars to get as far as you did with guy X), and do not unlock anything that you cannot eventually get.

[Covenant]

In that case, piety overflow abusing isn't serious either, really - one can always go to an altar and sac monsters ad nauseum, and you won't have to put up with bolts of energy or solars or the like, either. Yes, most ADOM exploits save you time (even save-scumming - you save the time of creating 10 new chars to get as far as you did with guy X), and do not unlock anything that you cannot eventually get.

However, such scummy methods aren't entirely without benefit: they highlight boring, repetitive parts of the game which should be changed. To use your example of piety overflow, it highlights the poor gameplay mechanic of herb-farming for 300 blessed Stoma to sac to be crowned or such.

[gut]

> Kickrobbing might be a game feature, though I doubt it.
> Don't forget that it's been seven years

I'm 99% sure I remember kick robbing Leggot's shop,
even back in the gammas. I didn't consider it a new
exploit when I posted on brinkster about it. It was
only the 'early-game' aspect of it I hadn't considered
before then that made it noteworthy to me.

> piety overflow abusing isn't serious either, really

Depends on how you define the word 'serious'. If you
mean cheating, then yes piety overflow is serious,
and digging shop walls isn't. If you define 'serious'
as game-breaking, then I would say that the piety
bug is more serious than the shop exploit because
of the 'diminishing returns' factor. Piety cheating
nets you a lot of gain with little time. On the other
hand, shop re-stocking nets a lot of gain, but only
with a LOT of time invested. Most players would just
rather get on with the game.

[mike]

I've never overflowed piety, so I'm not the best person to make the comparison... but I'd like to point out that restock time isn't as limiting a factor with kick-robbing as it seems. You can always do something else you were going to do anyway at the same time, such as reading a big stack of books or farming herbs.

The casino is a special exception as well. You can kick-rob it with a wand of destruction (in some cases I've bought the actual wand from the casino =P). By the time you finish kicking, the shop will have restocked. The ratio of (good) items to time is incredible. You might think that corruption is a limiting factor, but it's definitely not. The occasional writing set, SoCR/PoCC, and even wishes will more than make up for it. There are some problems with getting potions out after a while, but it's basically a wish engine without the wishing.

[Laukku]

I don't think it [shop kickrobbing] is a game bug

Why do you think so? Why should one be able to kick all the stuff from a shop, but not simply pick it up and run away? And why would the shopkeeper stand still while someone is kicking his stuff from the shop?

Destroying the walls might be a feature, but I would call it a bug that the shopkeeper lets you kick his stuff out from the store like that without reacting.

I agree.

[sterjs]

The casino is a special exception as well. You can kick-rob it with a wand of destruction (in some cases I've bought the actual wand from the casino =P). By the time you finish kicking, the shop will have restocked. The ratio of (good) items to time is incredible. You might think that corruption is a limiting factor, but it's definitely not.

Doesn't the casino usually restock after a long time playing slots? Afaik, slots only takes game time and not game turns, so corruption isn't a big deal unless it puts you over the 90 day mark.

IMO, shop restocking period is too powerful. When you combine it with kick robbing or casino gold, it's ridiculous.
________
Toyota Cressida

[gut]

> You can always do something else
...
> farming herbs.

I'm pretty sure that all shops, with the possible
exception of the casino, will not restock because
one spends game time/turns elsewhere. The time
and turns have to be on the shop level.

> casino is a special exception

The casino can be bought repeatedly with no side
effects. This too is a feature, not a bug, and for
the same reason, it's been around forever.

> Why do you think so?

Because it's been around forever : )
If it annoyed TB, he would have fixed it.

[Harwin]

I'm pretty sure that all shops, with the possible
exception of the casino, will not restock because
one spends game time/turns elsewhere. The time
and turns have to be on the shop level.

I seem to get "you hear arcane mumbling" disproportionately often when entering a level for it not to count time spent on other levels. If it didn't, hearing it as the first message entering a level would be no more likely than hearing it on any other square.

(However, I could be remembering from wizard games where I teleport a lot, and so entering/leaving levels represents a disproportionate amount of the time I spend on the level)