Time for a second win

[NMBLNG]

So I beat the game (normal ending) for the first time as a grey elf wizard. Now I want to do it with a melee class. Any suggestions on race/class?

Good ones look like Assassin, Beastfighter, Monk, Paladin, and Ranger.

[SirTheta]

Beastfighter is a lot of fun, but you need to pick a pretty fast leveling class or you get screwed pretty easily. My personal favorite class is Monk because it's so versatile and cool (though a large part of its appeal is now subsumed by the duelist class, to my sadness). Dwarf Monk + take PV talents = basically guaranteed to win (at least, according to grobble!).

(You might also consider drake barbs; they're pretty great!)

[mrrstark]

"Fast levelling class" ?
You mean race? Don't most races level pretty much the same except troll?

"a large part of its appeal is now subsumed by the duelist class" ?
Which parts do you mean?

[Grond]

"a large part of its appeal is now subsumed by the duelist class" ?
Which parts do you mean?

I'd guess he's talking about attacking fast and having an amazing set of skills.

Monks have a lot of perks though: being able to kick through walls at L13, being able to scribe scrolls without using mana, and being able to wield two-handed weapons while still having amazing DV.

[Grumbledwarfskin]

"Fast levelling class" ?
You mean race? Don't most races level pretty much the same except troll?

Definitely race. It's more than just trolls that level slowly: dwarves, mist elves, and draklings level slow (but not as slow as trolls), humans level fast, and hurthlings and gnomes level very fast.

Leveling fast can definitely be an advantage with beastfigher and monk, where damage comes from your character level, but it probably makes the pyramid a little more difficult, because you've killed fewer monsters and explored fewer dungeons by the time you reach the level limit...so you may not have found as many good items. Of course, beastfighter and monk are also said to be little less item-dependent as well...

I've never managed to get very far with either class yet myself, though. Both gnome and hurthling have other interesting synergies with the monk class: hurthlings love the speed boost to their archery, and gnomes love the ability to kick down walls at level 13 for unlimited gems, which can boost their learning and make them great mages.

It can be hard to get them through the early part of the game though, since they've got really poor HP. Actually, I gather both gnomes and hurthlings have been hit pretty hard in the more recent 1.2.0 prereleases, since herbs can't boost your toughness past your toughness potential, so they may be just as difficult to keep alive in the mid-late game as they are early with their low HP.

I can't say first-hand, not only because I haven't gotten one past the early game, but also because I'm playing pre-release 5, which I think was before that change.

[JellySlayer]

Hurthlings have decent enough To. On a good roll they can have 20 To with a potential of 25+.

They're also not a bad choice for monk since you can use thrown rocks as a bit of a crutch in the early game until you get some more PV. The low St can be annoying though if you want the bonuses (not that they're that important early game).

I'd go with drakeling monk myself though. Slightly better stats, food preservation, acid spit (also useful to counter monk food consumption).

[NMBLNG]

I'll try the drakeling monk, then. I've been trying dark elf ranger and drakeling paladin a bit.

Should I go unarmed combat or pick up a weapon? Or, at what point should I switch? What about armor, and other monk-issues?

Edit: Some things that I know about melee characters in general:

Train those missile weapons. I'll need a way to deal with dangerous monsters.
Get wands. Can't shoot doppelgangers.
As a monk, get some PV ASAP.

[SirTheta]

Woops!--I did mean race, of course. Many races level a bit slower (Mist Elf for example), which can make life difficult against bosses if you haven't found pretty good items. Beastfighters are one of the strongest classes at high levels, but low levels make the ACW a real PITA (since you probably won't have slaying ammo).

One of the great things about monks was that they came with a host of great skills, so you could choose to follow the restrictions or not. Duelists come with basically all those skills and slightly fewer restrictions (250 stone limit on armor = dragon scale mails, etc.). Since lower energy limit on attack basically pwns everything, they're much more powerful and worth sticking to restrictions with. (and you can true berserk)

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As for monks, if you're playing it safe, I'd go weaponless until I find an okay shield (wooden would be fine) then get the best weapon currently available. Ignore the restrictions in the beginning of the game and just play it like a class with a lot of super awesome skills. Later, you may find a nice 2H-er (like cow axe) you may want to get the DV boost for, by following the restrictions.

[NMBLNG]

So, play a monk like a basic warrior with good skills?

Played a few drakeling monks. They're actually harder to keep alive than a wizard, 'cause the wizard usually has a bolt spell. I'm also not finding a lot of good equipment, making for a pretty bad DV/PV.

My basic play style so far: pick up puppy and druid quest. Poke into the small cave, read the scrolls there a bunch of times. Go to the bandit town and get pick-pockets skill. I've been going to the infinite dungeon from there, but I may try going to the Druid cave just to generate the bottom level and then go playing around the infinite dungeon for a while.

[grobblewobble]

Dwarf Monk + take PV talents = basically guaranteed to win (at least, according to grobble!).

It's my favourite, but tbh drakeling monk is better. Rerolling for candle birth sign is worth it. I can recommend the PV talents.

Should I go unarmed combat or pick up a weapon? Or, at what point should I switch? What about armor, and other monk-issues?

When you start out, unarmed is about the best you can do. But don't hesitate to switch as soon as you find anything good. See the monk restrictions as an optional bonus to DV, not as a penalty. If you find a good shield and weapon or a good heavy armor, by all means use them.

My basic play style so far: pick up puppy and druid quest. Poke into the small cave, read the scrolls there a bunch of times. Go to the bandit town and get pick-pockets skill. I've been going to the infinite dungeon from there, but I may try going to the Druid cave just to generate the bottom level and then go playing around the infinite dungeon for a while.

Go to the arena and buy ratling food. With acid spit it's ammunition.