Thinking of trying a challenge game - Bard Archmage

[asdf]

Since going non-scumming I've completed a ULE and a UCG, so I was thinking about trying my luck at making an archmage. Is this still feasible on p14 or is it mainly a thing of the past?

Still possible, but takes a lot longer for non-wizards. Would not recommend to try non-wizard Archmage without rings/books shop to start severely nerfed (but still possible) ring wish engine/eventually buy Spellbook of Wish.

[JellySlayer]

Race effects PP on a very minor level. 100 Concentration is the main driver of PP regeneration and overwhelms all other sources.

Race does have a fairly significant effect on your total PP though.

[Carter]

Now about your main question, archmaging. I'm not an expert on this, but the main change in p14 that matters is hp casting. Still, I'm pretty sure you can work around that. Finding the book in the first place will be the biggest problem I think. Remember that the orb of mana can be used to increase your power points and mana very quickly. Once you have enough mana to bookcast wish on Silvernight, wishing for scrolls of chaos removal and using the orb starts a positive feedback loop. Wishing for speed at the start of Silvernight is good, too. You should probably get the ToTRR for the mana boost to get started.

i'd reckon the HP casting nerf will be an issue depending on how it is implemented. At the moment you lost 1-2 TO just from HP casting once, wonder what would happen if you cast something that is 500+ of hp.

would definately avoid a mist elf because you need the HP to book cast, as its worth 2 of every SP. Mist elfs have crap HP.

iirc the only non wizard "book casting" archmage i've seen was an elementalist who actually got the book by wishing for 1000s of books via the "ring archmage" method.

[JellySlayer]

i'd reckon the HP casting nerf will be an issue depending on how it is implemented. At the moment you lost 1-2 TO just from HP casting once, wonder what would happen if you cast something that is 500+ of hp.

It would be the same. HPcasting just abuses To and Wi, but no matter how much you abuse a stat, you never get more than 1 decrease per set of abuses, if my understanding is correct. If you HPcast once and think you will get a decrease, you may as well just HPcast constantly until you see the decrease, then stop immediately.

[Carter]

you sure about the 1 decrease per abuses? I would imagine it works like increases - you can stack them up.

but your right - you would just HPcast as quickly as possible, and once you start casting your TO will drop to 1 anyway eventually. would make it more difficult.

Obviously bards don't have the same spell cost advantages, so you'd need approximately 25% more SP than a wizard on top of it, so you would need to abuse mana sink significantly (probably to the tune of 500+ wands) and clothes of power etc.

then again it is probably possible with enough effort - the original archmage didn't have book caster talents which make it significantly easier.

[grobblewobble]

i'd reckon the HP casting nerf will be an issue depending on how it is implemented. At the moment you lost 1-2 TO just from HP casting once, wonder what would happen if you cast something that is 500+ of hp.

I don't know if this is going to make a big difference, casting wishes reduces your toughness to 1 pretty quickly in any case. But I think HP casting became less efficient, too? In terms of how many HP you lose.

iirc the only non wizard "book casting" archmage i've seen was an elementalist who actually got the book by wishing for 1000s of books via the "ring archmage" method.

There have been many non-wizard (bookcasting) archmages in 1.1. Someone recently had an arch farmer on the server (he got the book from Barnabas).

[Carter]

There have been many non-wizard (bookcasting) archmages in 1.1. Someone recently had an arch farmer on the server (he got the book from Barnabas).

would love to know the story behind that - thought only bard/wizard/elementalist/necro/druid could even read a book of wish even with boosted stats.

[Silfir]

Simple enough; they don't learn Wish from the book. You don't need to pass a reading check to bookcast.

Eventually, a wand of wonder or a potion of wonder will get you basic knowledge in Wish. Even more eventually, it will get you enough basic knowledge that the PP penalty for having below 100 becomes bearable. And then you're good to go, even if you're playing a beastfighter. The only limiting factor is patience.

[Carter]

and presumably corruption?

[asdf]

would love to know the story behind that - thought only bard/wizard/elementalist/necro/druid could even read a book of wish even with boosted stats.

Even fighter characters, except trolls (~50% chance), mindcrafters/barbarians (never) - could learn Wish reliably at level 50 with 99 Le, Concentration, Literacy and blessed book.