Can enemies target a vital spot and critically punch through armor?

[Singbird]

I was fighting steel golems in Darkforge while doomed and got "targets a vital spot and critically hits you." Seeing as this was a pretty dangerous hit I was wondering if it's possible for the monsters to have all three on one hit:

1. punch through armor
2. critical hit
3. vital spot

Anyone know?

[Stingray1]

I'm not certain, but from what you've experienced, if they have a penetrating attack. Why not?

I'm no expert in these matters though.

[_Ln_]

From what I understand from testing armor vs penetration attack "targets a vital spot" and "punches though armor" is exactly the same thing - first one is generated when you are not wearing body armor but have positive PV, second one is when you are wearing body armor and have positive PV.

[Singbird]

Hmm, interesting. I was wearing body armor though, the Ancient Mummy Wrapping specifically. Also a cap, girdle, boots, gloves. I was not using a shield though. Or maybe cloth armors don't warrant punching through. Would be an interesting detail if it is so. I always thought "targets a vital spot" was separate from critical hit. But now that I think about it I don't see those very often I think, so maybe indeed you are correct.

[_Ln_]

Hmm, interesting. I was wearing body armor though, the Ancient Mummy Wrapping specifically. Also a cap, girdle, boots, gloves. I was not using a shield though. Or maybe cloth armors don't warrant punching through. Would be an interesting detail if it is so. I always thought "targets a vital spot" was separate from critical hit. But now that I think about it I don't see those very often I think, so maybe indeed you are correct.

I've tested with various types of armor and I have no idea what's going on.
It's not about PV value. (although there is some strange stuff, like this - you have 1 PV from Tough, get "vital spot" message while naked, equip ugly clothes with +0 PV and start to receive "punches through").
It's not about weight (extra-heavy clothes (480s) give "vital spot" message, robes (60s) give "vital spot" message, but ugly clothes (50s) give "punches through").
It's not about material (elven chain mail gives "vital spot", high metal normal armor gives "punches through").
It's not about amount of turns to equip it (wild idea).

While I was writing this post, another idea came up and I guess it seems plausible enough.
All the results above were for 1.1.1 where AMW does give "punches through" message as well. I assume you are playing 1.2.0.
I reckon the game used to use the monk armor class check for this thing (all items listed here produce "punches through" message). I don't have a char for 1.2.0 (too lazy to generate a fresh one), but I suppose now you get "punches through" for armor weighing >60s and "vital spot" if it's <= 60s.

[anon123]

I've received the "targets a vital spot" message a few times, even with armor equipped. But never a critical hit and a vital spot targeted simultaneously. (During a bug testing session, I noticed letting claw bugs shred me into pieces with no items equipped and positive PV generates the vital spot message every time. This led me to realize maybe it is somehow related to natural PV, although unlike Ln, I never investigated it further.)

Also, perhaps this is better off in the "small things but undocumented" thread, but since I don't want to clog the forum:

• the time it takes to equip or remove armor is also affected by its PV rating.
• doing it in the wilderness is a free action that affects neither the turn counter nor the elapsed game time.

[Singbird]

I don't have a char for 1.2.0 (too lazy to generate a fresh one), but I suppose now you get "punches through" for armor weighing >60s and "vital spot" if it's <= 60s.

You are probably correct on this, it's just the same ignore PV attack. Thanks.