Inconsistencies between graphics and ASCII

[Stingray1]

With the introduction of graphical tiles into the game we now have some inconsistencies. I would like to discuss these inconsistencies with fellow community members, in order to formulate a few RFEs so we can have one game or two games.

1) The first one is that in the NotEye versions one can now see at a distance(more than one tile away within LOS) how much health a monster has. This of course is not possible in the ASCII version, unless you injure a monster with a missile attack.

I would thus like to suggest that the ASCII version be changed so that when using the 'l'ook command at distance the health status of a monster is also given.

2) The second one is that in the graphical tile mode one can see when there is a corpse, ration, sword, axe, etc. lying at distance. Even more details are discernible with intellect and experience. One can even see items lying on the same tile as a monster is occupying. It is possible that this gives graphical tile players an advantage over ASCII players.

I would thus like to suggest that with both versions the players is through using the 'l'ook command given information about items lying at distance within line of sight.

3) The third is status of herb bushes. In the graphical tile version the player can tell at distance what the status of a herb bush is or even while standing on one. This gives the player the advantage of less game turns and less tedious stepping on and off bushes to get that information from the game.

I would thus like to suggest that the player is informed about the status of a herb bush when using the 'l'ook command and also when harvesting from the bush as well as when stepping onto the bush.

This discussion is to establish whether we want two ADOMs or one. Also for you to add more inconsistencies. Also to discuss proposals.

[littlebrather]

On the other hand, in ASCII version you can semi-identify the top item in the stack on the floor, that is quite useful if someone doing speed run for certain item i.e. w/proof blanket in SMC.
In tiles version the heap of items looks same whatever it consists of — sword and one gold coin or blanket covering the ogre corpse.
I totally disagree with the idea of enhancing the 'l'ook command in ASCII version by monster wounded status information. Archery is already a bit OP in ADOM, and the inability for archer to get actual information about monster health forces player to play safer. Give an archer that and tomorrow he will start throwing his nasty arrows to you directly. Wiser it seems to nerf the health bars in tiles version.

[Stingray1]

Regarding your point about semi-identification; in the NotEye versions you can still do that by toggling to ASCII mode. More opinions on healthbars, please.

P.S. I just want to re-iterate the point of this thread is to get as many opinions as possible.

[Ravenmore]

The general consensus among the dev team is that both versions should give the player exactly the same information - the only difference being that in tile mode some of it can be available at first glance, rather than when specifically 'l'ooking.

From a graphical perspective enhancing the 'look' command as suggested by Stingray1 would be simpler. Health bars becoming inactive beyond a certain distance from the player, as well as items changing into "?"s (for example) if outside current 'looking' range would be pretty strange.

It does however affect balance, so we'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject. One way or another - one ADOM is the way we all want it

[_Ln_]

I like health bars. I don't think they are affecting game balance in significant way though.

If pure ASCII mode is to be brought to health bar functionality, we can simply add more wound statuses (10% hp, 20 %hp with the corresponding descriptions ("barely functioning", "on the verge of collapsing" etc.). I also don't have anything against checking wound status from distance with 'l'ook command, because I, for once, simply can't be bothered to do this. Health bars do it for me - fine, no health bars - still fine (I mostly play on the server anyway).

EDIT: forgot to add.
Please, please leave herb bushes as they are in tile mode and remove Herbalism check on status identification in ASCII mode. Automatic id, increased chance of not reducing the status and getting non-cursed herbs is more than enough.

In fact, make the game inform the player about herb bush status change after picking in both modes. Currently you have to step to the side and return back to check it (even 'a'pplying Herbalism will tell you just "You already know everything about this bush" which is damn annoying).

[Silfir]

Not gonna lie, I really love playing with the health bars. I think they should be added to ASCII mode if they aren't already.

[Stingray1]

All 3 issues that I have mentioned originated from what I've noticed myself doing while playing. I still prefer using ASCII, simply because I am so very used to it.

I however find myself changing to tile mode in some situations to use the added information that the graphical tiles provide. Although at first thought healthbars might not seem to make a difference, there are situation where they indeed made me choose whether I would rather zap an offensive wand now as opposed to shooting a missile or using a melee attack. I'm sure I'll encounter more of these situations in future.

[_Ln_]

All 3 issues that I have mentioned originated from what I've noticed myself doing while playing. I still prefer using ASCII, simply because I am so very used to it.

I however find myself changing to tile mode in some situations to use the added information that the graphical tiles provide. Although at first thought healthbars might not seem to make a difference, there are situation where they indeed made me choose whether I would rather zap an offensive wand now as opposed to shooting a missile or using a melee attack. I'm sure I'll encounter more of these situations in future.

The only advantage with health bars I've used so far is fine-tuning the moment when you have to cast slow monster on yourself to reap double xp rewards

Again, increasing the precision of wound check status via look command will provide the same advantage as health bars (since they are discrete, not continuous).

[Zeno]

For completeness, more inconsistencies:

Mimics. In the ASCII mode, mimics are often weirdly colored items, and in the tiles mode, they look rather mundane.
Blood. No blood in the ASCII mode.

On the other hand, the walls in Terinyo (and other places) look a bit weird before you have looked at them from all sides, this is so for consistency (otherwise you would be able to see that there is a wall or not at the place which you do not see yet).

[Mobius]

(most) Karmic beings look distinct at a single glance in tiled mode, while in ascii you need to observe them changing colors.
Different types of blankets can be distinguished in tiled mode, not ascii