More randomness, please?

[Qui]

The elemental guantlets are a bit special - i think they are staying as a "always" item since they provide the corruption reduction + resistances you need for the tower, but i do like the idea of randomness, so your AMW isn't always a [1,5], it might be a [2,4] or something.

the AMW is generally needed because it has a source of death resistance which is critical for the archmage, so you can't simply remove it and say that its bad luck if you don't stumble upon another item with that resistance .

Well I can agree with death ray resistance being important and having a game without any source of it could suck. Then again, having also see inv and cold immunity on it, I just think it's sort of too useful. Especially that having it relegates ogre-mages (meeting some is guaranteed if you're doing dwarven quests) from a dangerous foe to a pushover. Not to mention that there's a "domain of the Ice Queen" coming soon, I'd hazard a guess that there will be a some cold damage involved. Or not, if you put on AMW .

On the other hand, I'd be against varying DV/PV on it, just because 1-2 point difference hardly matters at this point.

If you don't like that there's "no competition" for e.g. the elemental gauntlets, remember there's forty-something new artifacts waiting to be implemented, and if that RFE to allow prefixes and suffixes on more pieces of armor passes (which I hope it does), even better.

The Chaos Orbs needn't corrupt the PC either. The stat bonuses are big, but you can only equip one at a time, and of their 'u'sable effects healing is the only useful one in my opinion (maybe the mana refill too depending on the circumstances, but that corrupts tremendously).

Well, that RFE would be nice to have indeed. Otherwise, there are 2 artifacts at the moment that could compete for the slot. Maybe a few more in the future. If you find them. Doesn't convince me.

As for the orbs, the bonuses are big indeed. Especially that +10Wi for casters. And I'd agree about healing being the only useful effect, but it's very very useful and not all that corrupting really. Especially with the gloves on.

The AMW guarantees that you don't need to scum for sources of -Deth for the Archmage, and careful players can get it before facing Li-Hon-Kay. It also has already been nerfed for p21, as it decreases Ap, and I think that will be an interesting tradeoff.

With overall decrease of corruption I doubt that. Or people will carry it around as a swap.

The elemental orbs are powerful but hey, they are the Chaos Orbs, dammit! What did you expect them to give, [+1,+0] and sleep resistance? They also add interesting choices in that when you have several, you need to choose which one to carry in the tool slot.

No, I'd expect them to be a bit more... chaotic? If you don't 'U'se them, all they do is give you a nice, nice bonus. How surprisingly... pleasant for a Chaos Orb.

[SirTheta]

Well I can agree with death ray resistance being important and having a game without any source of it could suck. Then again, having also see inv and cold immunity on it, I just think it's sort of too useful. Especially that having it relegates ogre-mages (meeting some is guaranteed if you're doing dwarven quests) from a dangerous foe to a pushover. Not to mention that there's a "domain of the Ice Queen" coming soon, I'd hazard a guess that there will be a some cold damage involved. Or not, if you put on AMW .

I mean...again, that's the whole point of the AMW. It has those attributes (particularly =Cold and +SeeI, less so -Deth) because you're supposed to get it at a point in the game BEFORE you do challenges involving things like ogre magi (and only eventually Nuurgy). Your exact problem with it is its sole reason for existing at that stage in the game, so you're never going to agree with it. (p.s. based on some things TB has posted, I don't think the AMW will make the Ice Queen domain trivial at all).

[Qui]

I mean...again, that's the whole point of the AMW. It has those attributes (particularly =Cold and +SeeI, less so -Deth) because you're supposed to get it at a point in the game BEFORE you do challenges involving things like ogre magi (and only eventually Nuurgy). Your exact problem with it is its sole reason for existing at that stage in the game, so you're never going to agree with it. (p.s. based on some things TB has posted, I don't think the AMW will make the Ice Queen domain trivial at all).

I see your point, and I don't have anything against the concept of "if you get item X before doing Y, Y is going to be easier". Like -Deth for Nuurgy, his still damn dangerous. On the other hand, ogre-mage arena boss and ogre-mages in ogre village go from relatively difficult to trivial. Like, what can they do? Turn invisible (oops, +SeeI) and cast that cold ray of theirs (lol, =Cold).

Still, I made no concrete suggestion for what to do with AMW, so the discussion doesn't have much substance. Therefore, I'd suggest giving it cold resistance instead of immunity. It would still do what it does now, just not that hard.

[Tyrnyx]

On the other hand, ogre-mage arena boss and ogre-mages in ogre village go from relatively difficult to trivial. Like, what can they do? Turn invisible (oops, +SeeI) and cast that cold ray of theirs (lol, =Cold).

Well. One possible solution/item-to-address is to make it so the arena bosses are more varied and all of them on par with the ogre-magi arena boss. Li-Hon-Kay is really the only dangerous one of the three possibilities. If your complaint is that the AMW makes the 4th quest a joke perhaps the change needs to be to the 4th quest and not the AMW. It could go to cold resist. I'd be ok with that.

I would say that Raven-Born Trident is really really strong. But... it's one of many birthsigns. Other signs get it late enough that it doesn't matter in the slightest. I like the Raven born difference. I think that Raven sign's balance is a little strong but in no way broken.

[StViers]

And the change to xp gain might balance out that difference slightly as well

[meekrab]

Well. One possible solution/item-to-address is to make it so the arena bosses are more varied and all of them on par with the ogre-magi arena boss. Li-Hon-Kay is really the only dangerous one of the three possibilities. If your complaint is that the AMW makes the 4th quest a joke perhaps the change needs to be to the 4th quest and not the AMW.

There could be Ogre Prince/Princess/King/Queens in there? Always seemed weird to me that it was just a bunch of ogres and then a witch doctor or two.

[Stingray1]

Well, the cave can be tricky if you enter it without the AMW or as a very low lvl PC. There is an Ogre Lord in there, which along with the Magi is pretty capable of killing some characters. Just because we know the AMW is a good artifact to use in there and have thus solved that riddle, snicker, doesn't mean it isn't difficult enough for those that haven't.

[anon123]

Still, I made no concrete suggestion for what to do with AMW, so the discussion doesn't have much substance. Therefore, I'd suggest giving it cold resistance instead of immunity. It would still do what it does now, just not that hard.

I don't see the problem with it granting cold immunity. It's hardly overpowered. It also allows you to get a different one upon crowning, because getting crowned with =Cold is, currently at least, a major disappointment - a single source of cold resistance (and there are four guaranteed ones) is enough to protect you from all cold-based threats throughout the entire game.

And if you think AMW switching is a mandatory "cheap" trick, that's because we're all already spoiled about it

[Qui]

And if you think AMW switching is a mandatory "cheap" trick, that's because we're all already spoiled about it

Well that's my point exactly, and the whole point of this thread. To make things a bit more random for us "spoiled" players. And remember, inside every unspoiled player there's a spoiled player waiting to get out .

(and no, I find it neither cheap, nor mandatory. But yes, if I raid the Pyramid (which I usually do, no reason not to), I will use AMW for encounters I know it is clearly the best for.)

[moozooh]

I think the OP's problem with AMW isn't that it shouldn't have all the useful bonuses, but rather the fact that all of them extremely useful ones are 1) concentranted in the single item, 2) available pretty early on. But as has been said earlier, AMW is hardly the end-all be-all chestpiece, and most players opt to swap it out already by ToEF or shortly afterwards (red and black dragon scale mails, eternium plate mails, and at least two other unique chestpieces can all be considered comparable or superior to AMW, which is really quite enough). The upcoming Ap changes nerf it pretty significantly, so I'd say it needn't be touched.

Elemental gauntlets I don't even begin to fathom how anyone would consider overpowered. Their only redeeming point is being indestructible and mist elf-compatible, the rest is either unneeded or easily outperformed. For one, I prefer to wear a pair of +3 St (or more) gauntlets or gloves with high DV/PV as soon as I find them. Having more artifact gauntlets (as well as bracers, cloaks, and girdles) is definitely a priority. We have almost way too many weapons (of which at least 9-10 are endgame-worthy) and nothing short of an excellent assortment of chestpieces, so filling up the less popular slots is definitely a good and overdue idea.